Determinism, fundamental attributes of basic concepts.

[everymansmedium]

Hello:
The basic concepts that I am thinking of are many but I would like to start with a force. This is to generate a reference of basics to once again see the concepts of science and physics from a philosophical view point. It originally started out to be this. This I believe is the tool that is missing.

When we get to the dilemma of free will we can retry this with all the new information that we have now that was not known to those that tried this on the first time.

A Force.
As I recall the theory of determinism indicated the fundamental attributes of a force as:

Must be apparent.
Must be constant.

Let us start with that as the ability to initiate an effect on the environment.
Is this all there is as a fundamental cause or do you think that there is another.

What is your feeling about a being as a fundamental cause?

In the theory of skepticism it is indicated that the only fact that can not be denied is the awareness of self. All things could be just a dream, but the awareness of self is true even if it is a dream for that the dream only has an effect on the location and state of the event not on its existence. So the existence of self is the only fact that we have that can not be denied. I feel that this fact indicates that this concept of awareness of self is a fundamental attribute of being. If you feel this is a reasonable thought, then you must also look at the laws of a force and compare the idea of awareness of self to the must be apparent do these not cover the same thought but only the being is more specific as to be apparent to the being itself.

Now also if you consider a being without any motivation you indicate another necessity for the act of being. The desire to be aware of self. This also gives a comparison to be made to the concept of a constant as a constant can be a form of motivation. As in continue.

Now if you look at both of these attributes you will see why I feel that a being is a primal mover in this idea of determinism. This I am sure will not be accepted no matter how good it is because of the reasons that I gave to Bob. It seems that we are more ready to give up our concept of freedom in order to keep determinism with a clean slate, then we are to make determinism a bit more difficult and to keep the freedom of the being to cause an event. Now we have seen that the being is almost the same as a force in the eyes of cause and effect.

Now it is time for you to comment.
John

[everymansmedium]

Hello:
The basic concepts that I am thinking of are many but I would like to start with a force. This is to generate a reference of basics to once again see the concepts of science and physics from a philosophical view point. It originally started out to be this. This I believe is the tool that is missing.

When we get to the dilemma of free will we can retry this with all the new information that we have now that was not known to those that tried this on the first time.

A Force.
As I recall the theory of determinism indicated the fundamental attributes of a force as:

Must be apparent.
Must be constant.

Let us start with that as the ability to initiate an effect on the environment.
Is this all there is as a fundamental cause or do you think that there is another.

What is your feeling about a being as a fundamental cause?

In the theory of skepticism it is indicated that the only fact that can not be denied is the awareness of self. All things could be just a dream, but the awareness of self is true even if it is a dream for that the dream only has an effect on the location and state of the event not on its existence. So the existence of self is the only fact that we have that can not be denied. I feel that this fact indicates that this concept of awareness of self is a fundamental attribute of being. If you feel this is a reasonable thought, then you must also look at the laws of a force and compare the idea of awareness of self to the must be apparent do these not cover the same thought but only the being is more specific as to be apparent to the being itself.

Now also if you consider a being without any motivation you indicate another necessity for the act of being. The desire to be aware of self. This also gives a comparison to be made to the concept of a constant as a constant can be a form of motivation. As in continue.

Now if you look at both of these attributes you will see why I feel that a being is a primal mover in this idea of determinism. This I am sure will not be accepted no matter how good it is because of the reasons that I gave to Bob. It seems that we are more ready to give up our concept of freedom in order to keep determinism with a clean slate, then we are to make determinism a bit more difficult and to keep the freedom of the being to cause an event. Now we have seen that the being is almost the same as a force in the eyes of cause and effect.

Now it is time for you to comment.
John

Hello:
Don't everyone trip over one another to respond.
Did I remove the creator of silence too soon?

Is the subject material boring?
Is it obviously wrong? (why) (how)
I would not touch that with a ten foot pole. (why)

John

[Mohan.C]

Hello:
The basic concepts that I am thinking of are many but I would like to start with a force. This is to generate a reference of basics to once again see the concepts of science and physics from a philosophical view point. It originally started out to be this. This I believe is the tool that is missing.

When we get to the dilemma of free will we can retry this with all the new information that we have now that was not known to those that tried this on the first time.

A Force.
As I recall the theory of determinism indicated the fundamental attributes of a force as:

Must be apparent.
Must be constant.

Let us start with that as the ability to initiate an effect on the environment.
Is this all there is as a fundamental cause or do you think that there is another.

What is your feeling about a being as a fundamental cause?

In the theory of skepticism it is indicated that the only fact that can not be denied is the awareness of self. All things could be just a dream, but the awareness of self is true even if it is a dream for that the dream only has an effect on the location and state of the event not on its existence. So the existence of self is the only fact that we have that can not be denied. I feel that this fact indicates that this concept of awareness of self is a fundamental attribute of being. If you feel this is a reasonable thought, then you must also look at the laws of a force and compare the idea of awareness of self to the must be apparent do these not cover the same thought but only the being is more specific as to be apparent to the being itself.

Now also if you consider a being without any motivation you indicate another necessity for the act of being. The desire to be aware of self. This also gives a comparison to be made to the concept of a constant as a constant can be a form of motivation. As in continue.

Now if you look at both of these attributes you will see why I feel that a being is a primal mover in this idea of determinism. This I am sure will not be accepted no matter how good it is because of the reasons that I gave to Bob. It seems that we are more ready to give up our concept of freedom in order to keep determinism with a clean slate, then we are to make determinism a bit more difficult and to keep the freedom of the being to cause an event. Now we have seen that the being is almost the same as a force in the eyes of cause and effect.

Now it is time for you to comment.
John

Well, I don't agree that time is a force.

Time is a measure of the changes that occurred from cause to effect.
Time is more like motion than force.
With the measurement of time, we can calculate the force.

[everymansmedium]

Well, I don't agree that time is a force.

Time is a measure of the changes that occurred from cause to effect.
Time is more like motion than force.
With the measurement of time, we can calculate the force.

Hello Mohan:
It is your being that observes the motion. I would think that your first order of observation is to recognize that your own being is the first thing that is always relative to time, movement or no movement.
If there was no observer, you could not prove to me that movement does exist for neither of us would be here, then who would be there to care about movement? If there was no one to observe it, does movement continue to exist?
First things first.
All thought is the result of being. This is the core of existence. This is the only thing in this existence medium that can not be denied. All other input is from your senses. It could all be just a dream. But dream or no dream I AM.
There is no more existence solid platform than this.
I AM. I Continue.
This is where we must begin. It is the only solid platform that we have. In the begining was:
I AM, I Continue. All else is an after thought!

John.

[Mohan.C]

I do believe in 'I AM'.

All thought is the result of being. and all action is result of thought.

If there was no one to observe it, does movement continue to exist?

I guess it would, its not like the universe exists for our sakes. We are a part of it, and lucky enough that we can observe it.

If there was no observer, you could not prove to me that movement does exist for neither of us would be here, then who would be there to care about movement?

Nobody has to. Movement would have occurred it doesn't matter we were here or not, there would have been no one to observe that moment and measure it. And of course no one to call it- movement.

I would think that your first order of observation is to recognize that your own being is the first thing that is always relative to time, movement or no movement.

Yeah, I guess I would consider myself to be also relative.

[austintorn@aol.com]

We are all relatives,
Descended from stars
And trees (as in coming down from),
Some of our relations
Many times removed,
But they keep on coming back.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Be-Cause

Even God’s Thoughts Would Be laws
Determined but by their cause,
Which would make good sense,
Unless All was merely nonsense.