The Role of Mankind

[Profpat]

Tim, what ever gets you through the night, is alright.

[leskey]

The purpose of this thread is to explore our function in this world, whereby perhaps we can better understand our needed form.

I am of the opinion that all things here have a purpose and that form follows function.

BTW, Tim, you may find this of interest. I am a designer (spatial and product). As such I adhere to the tenet that "Form follows function." I interpret function as being the purpose/objective and whilst form arises from function, it has many possibilities and is therefore subjective.

As such, Purpose (objective) precedes Existence (subjective). However, if I've interpreted some of my sources correctly, the same institution that has educated my disipline, has educated scientists that the opposite is true, that Existence is the objective and its Origin is subjective. Can you or anyone else confrim/deny this?

[analog]

Tim, what ever gets you through the night, is alright.

I sleep just fine Pat. I'm Ok with the thought that I/we/mankind isn't the center of the universe or the cause of existence. It's all been here all along, and we're just an equal part.

Just my opinion, and it doesn't mean much,

Tim

[analog]

Hi Leskey,

I was hoping you would find us here. This is kind of a continuation of our discussion from the other thread yesterday. I figured we could start fresh with a new thread and get varying opinions involved.

Could holistic self-determination be the purpose of existence?

I don't know. What do you think?

Like I just stated above, I prefer to think that nothing was created, everything just constantly changes, and we are a part of the mechanism of that change.

I'm probably wrong, but I feel that for a system to achieve this, there must be a functioning framework of logic which governs it (call it a ToE), and all the forms within our universe (us included) are merely that logical function in motion.

Perhaps, we don't need an origin/reason for the fundamentals (matter, space and motion) to exist, they just need a logical framework whereby they don't become static to form. Due to this view, I feel that function is the objective and form is subjective wherever it's needed.

I'm not sure how scientist are educated. Dave could probably give us some insight on that one. I'm glad to see we share the same logic.


regards,

Tim

[austintorn@aol.com]

For the fundamentals not to have been inert or static to form, there would have to have been something like the possibility of the quantum realm in which everything gets tried all-at-once in superposition, and spewed out, the poor functioning stuff collapsing or laying around useless, and the good stuff further combining and going places. Can't really expect much more 'vision' at that 'low' level.

[analog]

hey Austin,

That's a good possibility, but I don't view the quantum world like that.

I see the universe through an absolute motion framework, similar to the one Dave put into theory so long ago.

In my views the fundamentals were always here and in motion; thus static to form would just mean their motions were completely random or completely uniform; symmetrical either way; they just represent the two opposite ends of the spectrum of motion.

The part that I question with my form and function logic is why are they now asymmetrical, whereby we have the contrast from which our world emerges. The fundamental motions of our universe are now part random and part uniform. Our world is currently somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between the chaotic random end and the ordered uniform end.

That's why I ask myself; what's the role of mankind, and how are we assisting in this rearrangement of motion?

This is just my logic of probing the world, and it's probably flawed.

[leskey]

Where are you Dave??? I know it's you dleviwing...

Just need Graybeard now and we can go "hammer and tongs" about evolution!

So, Tim, I think my interpretation is correct. It's the concept of Purpose that Science can't get it's collective head around and so denies that Mankind embodies more than just matter.

Never content with the Now, we continue to delve into the past to determine the future.

As to your question: "..what's the role of Mankind and, how are we assisting in this rearrangement of motion?"

Mankind represents a redistribution of energy

[Graybeard]

Where are you Dave??? I know it's you dleviwing...

Just need Graybeard now and we can go "hammer and tongs" about evolution!

I'm here .... just haven't had time to read all the posts in this thread that seems to have taken off overnite ... LOL

Will soon catch up and post

cool bananas ... greg

[analog]

Leskey,

Energy is the effects of motion in an absolute motion framework. Therefore, I agree; mankind is indeed redistributing/rearranging motion; thus it is also causing instances of observable "energy". Mankind helps give direction to the directionally challenged ever moving universe

What are we doing with an electrical generator? We are putting a lot of effort turning a big machine, whereby many small ones, which need less effort, turn/react in unison miles away. We are redistributing motion and changing it from random to uniform. Electric lines are just like water hoses; except you can't kink them and stop the flow.

Keep in mind, in a closed universal system, to obey conservation laws, all volumes/amounts of motion, space and matter are finite and absolute. Thus, all we can do is rearrange their distribution, whereby assisting in the emergence of an asymmetrical world from either symmetrical chaotic randomness or symmetrical ordered uniformity.

That's the part where I get a little confused. What causes the entropy? All of the function and form is hidden in there somewhere. While the motions of the rest of the world is cause and effect, we (mankind/life) somehow have infinite degrees of freedom at seemingly any infinite instance of time, thus moving where we choose whenever we choose, without having to have another object to collide into us to set our motions in action. We understand the planets and stars better, because we can explain and plot their motions. If we could only understand and plot the motions of mankind, the ToE would be solved, in my opinion. Thus emerges another frame of motion once the fundamentals combine to form objects; the galactic bodies representing predictable uniform motions, and life representing unpredictable random motions.

[analog]

Glad to see you with us Greg, we need your insight. A good evolutionary viewpoint would be much appreciated.

regards,

Tim