Theory of Time/ Events vs. Existense

[Armytaco]

Hey there. New to the site. I thought I'd thought of a simple paradox I came up with and see how some people respond to it.

Alright so this concept follows the idea of a singular "straight" timeline with which only one moment in time exists, not the idea of the entire timeline being in coexistense with it self.

We are all aware that a segment of a timeline looks like this:

I------------------------I

With two ends to enclose the moment of time attempting to be shown. Many also asume that time is infinite in length,therefore the entire line of time could be shown as such.

I----------------------->

Wit the arrow representing the infinite amount of time ahead of our current point in time or "future". Now before I go any further, some would argue that time is a man made construction, which it is. Time is an idea made by humans to measure the distance between and including events and ocurrences. Now assuming that point we would have to abandon the timeline yet as long as we consider that the lack of any event is to be considered an event within itself, we would realize that there is no distance or "gap" between events, thus a timeline exists, just not in the idea we use it. Anyways, back to the timeline. No one truly knows what events are to take place at the very beginning of the time line thus we would just have to use an idea as an example. Christianity would assume god at the beginning of this timeline, thus the timeline would look like this:

I GOD------------------------>

This concept is okay, but you must find proof that this truly was the beginning, and that nothing actually took place before the sole existence of god.(For now, let's refer to god as "A").If we trace the events preceding the end of the existence of only god and the lack of events, christianity would asume that still, there was only god and that if we trace back, the timeline looks as such:

IAAAAAAAAAAAAA----------------------->

And if we trace back further, this

IAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA----------------------->

So this would be to assume that before the end of the last point "A" there was only more point "A". Which is the only way to prove that if there WAS a god, that he would have been the first existence in the universe. This creates a new timeline:

<A---------------->

This would prove god was the first existence, if it could be proved he did exist. However, this new timeline suggests infinite existence on both directions of the timeline, thus creating two paradoxes:

1. In order for the current, single moment we are in now to exist on the timeline, we would have to have started moving along the timeline, which is impossible without the inclusion of a beginning,which is what this timeline excludes.

2. If there is infinite "past" and "future" then there will always be the same amount of "time" on either side of the current moment, making it impossible for "time" to "move forward" if the same amount of it is still on either side as it was before.

Problem: We don't need the existence of god to be included in the creation of the above timeline. This is because in similarity to events, the lack of existense is to be considered existence and can always be traced backwards ( more idealy than physically).

Considering the two paradoxes we would discover that this concept completley eradicates the possibility of existence. This is because assuming that time is just a string of events, paradox 2 erases the forward motion of time and the concept of one event following another. Also, paradox 1 eradicates the idea of one moment existing in time, which would lead us into simultaneous time which would also be impossible in the consideration of the length of a moment.

"Some things were not meant to be understood"
~ Army

[Mikal]

Hi Army...welcome to the TOE...wanted to ask you a somewhat precarious question and see if you have any thoughts on that seeing you are interested in the concept of time. In the 1980s I had an NDE and throughout that experience all the while being fully conscious of what was happening to me, I realized upon coming back here that in that experience I had no sense of time. I could not tell you whether I was gone for moments or hours?? That seemed very strange to me and after this NDE I noticed I had trouble getting back to the same sense of time I had before it occurred. Wondered if you had any thoughts on that because it just seemed very peculiar to me...


thanks Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

An infinite past of things tied to time is not possible, for these types of actual infinities can never complete, as would have been the case here (with no beginning).

[quanta07]

Hello Army,

timeline looks as such:

IAAAAAAAAAAAAA----------------------->

And if we trace back further, this
Hey there. New to the site. I thought I'd thought of a simple paradox I came up with and see how some people respond to it.

Alright so this concept follows the idea of a singular "straight" timeline with which only one moment in time exists, not the idea of the entire timeline being in coexistense with it self.

We are all aware that a segment of a timeline looks like this:

I------------------------I

With two ends to enclose the moment of time attempting to be shown. Many also asume that time is infinite in length,therefore the entire line of time could be shown as such.

I----------------------->

Wit the arrow representing the infinite amount of time ahead of our current point in time or "future". Now before I go any further, some would argue that time is a man made construction, which it is. Time is an idea made by humans to measure the distance between and including events and ocurrences. Now assuming that point we would have to abandon the timeline yet as long as we consider that the lack of any event is to be considered an event within itself, we would realize that there is no distance or "gap" between events, thus a timeline exists, just not in the idea we use it. Anyways, back to the timeline. No one truly knows what events are to take place at the very beginning of the time line thus we would just have to use an idea as an example. Christianity would assume god at the beginning of this timeline, thus the timeline would look like this:

I GOD------------------------>

This concept is okay, but you must find proof that this truly was the beginning, and that nothing actually took place before the sole existence of god.(For now, let's refer to god as "A").If we trace the events preceding the end of the existence of only god and the lack of events, christianity would asume that still, there was only god and that if we trace back, the
IAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA----------------------->

So this would be to assume that before the end of the last point "A" there was only more point "A". Which is the only way to prove that if there WAS a god, that he would have been the first existence in the universe. This creates a new timeline:

<A---------------->

This would prove god was the first existence, if it could be proved he did exist. However, this new timeline suggests infinite existence on both directions of the timeline, thus creating two paradoxes:

1. In order for the current, single moment we are in now to exist on the timeline, we would have to have started moving along the timeline, which is impossible without the inclusion of a beginning, which is what this timeline excludes.

Birth begins everyones personal time line, movement on this line begins. Galactic time segment starts with a bang. But the time line for the whole universe may well be a circle. Remember “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.” (Phrase within a book of the bible). A cyclic or ring structure time line where each point we are is the omega, (end of past) AND the alpha(beginning of future)

2. If there is infinite "past" and "future" then there will always be the same amount of "time" on either side of the current moment, making it impossible for "time" to "move forward" if the same amount of it is still on either side as it was before.

Not impossible if you consider the position as alpha omega, it matters not which direction since all directions will be forward, leaving the past, maybe we call the alpha omega point the present.

Problem: We don't need the existence of god to be included in the creation of the above timeline. This is because in similarity to events, the lack of existense is to be considered existence and can always be traced backwards ( more idealy than physically).

I think it would good to keep God around as a teacher

Considering the two paradoxes we would discover that this concept completley eradicates the possibility of existence. This is because assuming that time is just a string of events, paradox 2 erases the forward motion of time and the concept of one event following another. Also, paradox 1 eradicates the idea of one moment existing in time, which would lead us into simultaneous time which would also be impossible in the consideration of the length of a moment.

I seem to disagree here, I see no paradox viewing from the present. One does not negate the other.

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...pace-time.html

Welcome to ToeQuest Army,

Happy thoughts….Q7

[Armytaco]

Hello Army,





Birth begins everyones personal time line, movement on this line begins. Galactic time segment starts with a bang. But the time line for the whole universe may well be a circle. Remember “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.” (Phrase within a book of the bible). A cyclic or ring structure time line where each point we are is the omega, (end of past) AND the alpha(beginning of future)





Not impossible if you consider the position as alpha omega, it matters not which direction since all directions will be forward, leaving the past, maybe we call the alpha omega point the present.

I think it would good to keep God around as a teacher


I seem to disagree here, I see no paradox viewing from the present. One does not negate the other.

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...pace-time.html

Welcome to ToeQuest Army,

Happy thoughts….Q7

Interesting theories. Yes, I have heard the cirlcle theory before. I try to keep the ideas seperate as a circle tends to relate to simultaneous time existence as well as repetition. It gets fairly complex and for this paradox it is more easily considered with the concept of a straight line.

[Armytaco]

Hi Army...welcome to the TOE...wanted to ask you a somewhat precarious question and see if you have any thoughts on that seeing you are interested in the concept of time. In the 1980s I had an NDE and throughout that experience all the while being fully conscious of what was happening to me, I realized upon coming back here that in that experience I had no sense of time. I could not tell you whether I was gone for moments or hours?? That seemed very strange to me and after this NDE I noticed I had trouble getting back to the same sense of time I had before it occurred. Wondered if you had any thoughts on that because it just seemed very peculiar to me...


thanks Mikal

That is interesting. I would just consider that to be just confusion in general. For a more philisophical perspective you could consider it as being aware of the presense of events and the lack of them, but not the magnitude or "size" of the events and lacking of them. So in other words, you were aware events were occuring, just not for how long they were occuring.

To come up with more I would need more time. If i think of any other ideas I may post them.

[Mikal]

Thank you Army, for your imput! Would appreciate any further thoughts if you gain some insights that may interest me concerning the NDE and loss of a sense of time....


Mikal