False & True Philosophical Utopias...

[MJA]

Before you travel a path, check the signpost. If the signpost says "Scientific-Based Discussion" then you must refrain from offering your alternative views that are not based on science.

Graybeard mod

[Lloyd Gillespie]

The False Utopias of Scientific Logic & God Logic, As Now Percieved…

Can any one of us truly answer the question: “How does one know the boundary line between logic and ego?” Is it even possible to discern? What is the exact criteria you use to determine whether you are using a logic faithful to your chosen field of belief? How do you even make your ideas truly clear to yourself? What are your methods? Do you even believe there are any truly value-valid methods? Is mathematics a sound method, and do you use math? Is empiricism a sound method? Is fallibility and doubt to be thoroughly investigated in developing one’s logic? Are experiments logically valid, and how does one draw conclusions from experiments? Is faith a satisfactory method for some, and what is its true ground or grounds of thought? Is science a satisfactory method for others, and what is its true ground or grounds of thought? Is logic scientifically valid, as now constructed, or as is used in a folk(natural) usage? How does ego know logic as logic, and not ego? How does logic know ego as ego, and not logic? As per all the new and extended logics, of the centuries, what makes logic sound and valid?

These are some of the questions I think any TOE must answer FIRST…

[SB_UK]

In a struggle between logic and geometry.

What can logic 'do' which cannot be accomplished by geometry?

I'd like to suggest that geometry
- a repeating motif {profile,pattern} which underlies reality is the answer here.

We kinda' 'know' stuff when nature's geometry
- a tree-like structure ... ... ...

... ... ... when we've hung a glitter-ball off each and every branch on our Christmas tree.

That we 'know' something when we've completed construction of a tree-structure

- completion of a tree-structure entailing that the tree may then be 'cloned' into a forest
-> generating ->-
a rain-forest canopy

- which just like the tree previously is a single entity

- albeit a single entity (the canopy) with greater mathematical complexity than the crown of a single tree.

~*~

Logic -> sense
- however 'sense' also has meaning in geometry.

~*~

Geometry appeals to intuition
- however logic selects from a vast array of geometries?

Logic as our subset of all possible geometries ?

[just thinking without censorship here]

[Lloyd Gillespie]

In a struggle between logic and geometry. What can logic 'do' which cannot be accomplished by geometry? I'd like to suggest that geometry - a repeating motif {profile,pattern} which underlies reality is the answer here. We kinda' 'know' stuff when nature's geometry - a tree-like structure when we've hung a glitter-ball of each and every branch on our Christmas tree. That we 'know' something when we've completed construction of a tree-structure - completion of a tree-structure entailing that the tree may then be 'cloned' into a forest - a rain-forest canopy - which like the tree previously is a single entity - albeit a single entity (the canopy) with greater mathematical complexity than the crown of a single tree.

~*~
Logic -> sense - however 'sense' also has meaning in geometry.

Exactly SB, I agree most 100%. Geometry is also the foundation of my logic__It's real, I can do it in the sand, or anywhere. It truly represents the world, and as you may have noticed in this drawing: http://www.toequest.com/forum/genera...html#post95869 I also applied it to the self-mechanics of perception...(text box, top right in diagram)

Geometry appeals to intuition - however logic selects from a vast array of geometries?

Logic as our subset of all possible geometries ?

I especially liked these two statements/questions__excellent...

Thanks a trillion $$$...

p.s.
Sb, your post gives me this thought: The Aesthetic/Esthetic Geometry of Nature(what a perfect/beautiful image it gives me_pure nature...)

[SB_UK]

I especially liked these two statements ...

They feel right .

ved -anta
the end of knowledge

... ... ...yet reality soldiers on.

Feels like a weight off our shoulders

- that creepin' suspicion of 'what's there to know?'

[Lloyd Gillespie]

They feel right . ved -anta the end of knowledge ... ... ...yet reality soldiers on. Feels like a weight off our shoulders - that creepin' suspicion of 'what's there to know?'

You know, to me, it's not really a question/suspicion of 'what's there to know?' We already 'know'_possibly too much. To me, it's the 'How' of solving our massive global problems. I.E.: How do we beat the corrupt politicians and other intellectual/commercial pinheads, at their own game...?

[SB_UK]

You know, to me, it's not really a question/suspicion of 'what's there to know?' We already 'know'_possibly too much. To me, it's the 'How' of solving our massive global problems. I.E.: How do we beat the corrupt politicians and other intellectual/commercial pinheads, at their own game...?

I agree -
- the problems're hopefully dissolving
as we speak
- resolving reality
one~mind
- from our parochial
'not much but all we've got'
species
context.

[melanie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axw8A...eature=related

[Lloyd Gillespie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axw8AeNVS1c&feature=related

Good video Melanie, but I am a realist_ya know. I know I, others and the world/universe truly exist__sorry...

I don't have to prove it__I feel it_I see it_I know it_The 5 senses don't lie, and some's 6th sense even works geometrically/logically/reasonably, seeing all nature's wonders...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

I agree - - the problems're hopefully dissolving as we speak - resolving reality one~mind - from our parochial 'not much but all we've got' species context.

Hopefully yes, I agree. But I like to give a bit of help. Take a look at this graphic: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2QxI45oGwKI/SpnkSPGwb5I/AAAAAAAAABw/ACXBxEYwSnQ/s1600-h/Capi4.jpg It's one of a series I'll later on be talking about. This one is the balanced position we should be heading for. With any luck we may some day get there...

Here's where we are now: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2QxI45oGwK...00-h/Capi6.jpg
A bit of Pythagorean and Archimedean geometry...