[Polybius]

I just finished watching a doc on Stephen Hawking's paradox - 'information paradox'. It explained how he tried to prove that black holes can die out and disappear from existence along with all the information stored in its infinite singularity. Physics doesn't seem to allow this loss of information. They state that information can never really be ever lost, only harder to retrieve.

But what then existed before this universe? Before the Big Bang. I always thought that absolutely nothing existed before it. Not even information. Doesn't that prove that it's possible for information to be destroyed and not to exist at all. Why doesn't physics then allow it?

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Polybius I just finished watching a doc on Stephen Hawking's paradox - 'information paradox'. It explained how he tried to prove that black holes can die out and disappear from existence along with all the information stored in its infinite singularity. Physics doesn't seem to allow this loss of information. They state that information can never really be ever lost, only harder to retrieve. But what then existed before this universe? Before the Big Bang. I always thought that absolutely nothing existed before it. Not even information. Doesn't that prove that it's possible for information to be destroyed and not to exist at all. Why doesn't physics then allow it?

I watched it too Polybius,great program,part two next week.Prehaps he could present
His TOE here for us to read?



regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by Polybius I just finished watching a doc on Stephen Hawking's paradox - 'information paradox'. It explained how he tried to prove that black holes can die out and disappear from existence along with all the information stored in its infinite singularity. Physics doesn't seem to allow this loss of information. They state that information can never really be ever lost, only harder to retrieve. But what then existed before this universe? Before the Big Bang. I always thought that absolutely nothing existed before it. Not even information. Doesn't that prove that it's possible for information to be destroyed and not to exist at all. Why doesn't physics then allow it?

Hi polybius,
I think we can interpret dissapear as becoming a part of everything, I mean merging with the fabric of the universe. If the singularity dissapears to become a part of everything we know, along with all the info the black hole had, then that means singularity has an infinite potential. What do you think?

[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by Polybius I just finished watching a doc on Stephen Hawking's paradox - 'information paradox'. It explained how he tried to prove that black holes can die out and disappear from existence along with all the information stored in its infinite singularity. Physics doesn't seem to allow this loss of information. They state that information can never really be ever lost, only harder to retrieve. But what then existed before this universe? Before the Big Bang. I always thought that absolutely nothing existed before it. Not even information. Doesn't that prove that it's possible for information to be destroyed and not to exist at all. Why doesn't physics then allow it?

You need to keep in mind that these ideas are purely theory or conjecture; nothing is fact or proven with them.

[Polybius]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick Prehaps he could present His TOE here for us to read?

That would be awesome. Get him on the phone!

Originally Posted by Mohan.C I think we can interpret dissapear as becoming a part of everything, I mean merging with the fabric of the universe. If the singularity dissapears to become a part of everything we know, along with all the info the black hole had, then that means singularity has an infinite potential. What do you think?

Well i must say i can't quite grasp how something can disappear from existence into everything...Kind of like the universe is recycling .I would think that it disappears into nothingness-total annihilation of information. But then again if we compare the loss of information to a magician. Maybe it's all just a trick. It could very well be that is seems like something disappears when actually it's an illusion and as you say it becomes everything or maybe something else.

I think that an infinite point of sing. opens up other dimensions or 'big bangs'. Since our big bang started from a point of singularity and the singularity in a black hole gets created (supernova)- thus opening up and starting a new universe inside that infinite point just like how our universe began. From that point of infinity. Our uni might just as well have come from some sort of infinite point in another reality/dimension.

Hold on...I think i can grasp now how something can disappear into 'everything' - that everything being a new born universe/reality. So it's not far from your own thoughts that it disappears into this particular universe. The universe is still recycling itself! Marvelous.

[Polybius]

Originally Posted by dleviwing You need to keep in mind that these ideas are purely theory or conjecture; nothing is fact or proven with them.

Yes, i haven't forgotten But they're interesting nonetheless.

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by Polybius That would be awesome. Get him on the phone! Well i must say i can't quite grasp how something can disappear from existence into everything...Kind of like the universe is recycling .I would think that it disappears into nothingness-total annihilation of information. But then again if we compare the loss of information to a magician. Maybe it's all just a trick. It could very well be that is seems like something disappears when actually it's an illusion and as you say it becomes everything or maybe something else. I think that an infinite point of sing. opens up other dimensions or 'big bangs'. Since our big bang started from a point of singularity and the singularity in a black hole gets created (supernova)- thus opening up and starting a new universe inside that infinite point just like how our universe began. From that point of infinity. Our uni might just as well have come from some sort of infinite point in another reality/dimension. Hold on...I think i can grasp now how something can disappear into 'everything' - that everything being a new born universe/reality. So it's not far from your own thoughts that it disappears into this particular universe. The universe is still recycling itself! Marvelous.

When you pour a glass of water into a pool it dissapears because u cannot locate the water you poured.
What is the next infinitesimal after a point? Nothing.
The info contained in the black hole becomes a part of the universe. But It is not possible to locate it. Its almost like camouflaging it. But unlike camouflaging it is not givin the appearence of the sorrounding it is becomin a part of the sorrounding.

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by Polybius That would be awesome. Get him on the phone! Well i must say i can't quite grasp how something can disappear from existence into everything...Kind of like the universe is recycling .I would think that it disappears into nothingness-total annihilation of information. But then again if we compare the loss of information to a magician. Maybe it's all just a trick. It could very well be that is seems like something disappears when actually it's an illusion and as you say it becomes everything or maybe something else. I think that an infinite point of sing. opens up other dimensions or 'big bangs'. Since our big bang started from a point of singularity and the singularity in a black hole gets created (supernova)- thus opening up and starting a new universe inside that infinite point just like how our universe began. From that point of infinity. Our uni might just as well have come from some sort of infinite point in another reality/dimension. Hold on...I think i can grasp now how something can disappear into 'everything' - that everything being a new born universe/reality. So it's not far from your own thoughts that it disappears into this particular universe. The universe is still recycling itself! Marvelous.

I have no idea about any other realities. I wish to understand the reality I can feel around me before I can move on to other reality

[Profpat]

I believe Hawkings later proposed that the information doesn't get lost, it just gets stored in an alternate universe.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Profpat I believe Hawkings later proposed that the information doesn't get lost, it just gets stored in an alternate universe.

How do we access this alternate universe Pat?



regards michael.