Why is gravity attractive while electromagnetism is repulsive

[austintorn@aol.com]

is it at all possible that gravity is not a mysterious particle, but rather a geometrical side-effect of particle positions?

could be, as here…

Gravity Explained

The Strength of Gravity, The Feeble Apparent

Gravity is a universal force—for any body:
The force felt by a body is mass proportional;
Yet, the acceleration that’s felt is the inverse!
This coincidence removes all mass dependence.

(Einstein transcended this amazing ‘coincidental’ race
By bodies going straight through curved space.)

Gravity might be derived from the fundamentals,
The byproduct of a small residual after cancelations
Of opposite electric or color charges, and more.
Why then is gravity universal, for its sources are not?

Perhaps the appearance of feebleness is deceptive
Since protons and neutrons are but lightweights.
But why are they so light? Their mass is a compromise
Between a disturbance energy and its cancellation.

The quarks’ color charge disturbs gluons around them,
Small at first, but larger growing farther from the quark.
These disturbances cost energy, but how to cancel them?
With an anti-quark or 2 complementarily colored quarks.

But the qualifying quarks can’t sit atop the originals,
For quarks have no definite position, just a wave function,
And they can’t be localized to a small spread of position,
For this requires a larger energy—so forget nullification.

The compromise is that some residual energy amounts
From the not-completely-canceled gluon field disturbances
And from the not-completely-canceled quark positionings,
Thus the proton mass, m=E/cc, with this tricky element
Of how the gluon disturbance field grows with distance.

(The residual strong energy from color charge also binds
The protons and neutrons in the atomic nucleus;
The electromagnetic electron/nuclei charge residuals
Bind atoms into molecules and molecules into materials.)

Asymptotic freedom is a subtle feedback effect
From virtual particles antiscreening the color charge.
This antiscreening builds up gradually, especially at first,
Then proceeds more quickly, building upon each building.

(But screening happens for electrically charged particles,
As a positive charge attracts a negative virtual cloud.)

Thus, at first, since it’s so slow to build, the pressure
To localize the nullifying quarks is quite mild as well.
Thus, there’s no need to very strictly localize and so
The energies are small—and so then is the proton mass.

(Ideas herein were gathered from readings of Frank Wilczek)

[ddaker]

That is seriously awesome! I've never really pictured the chain of events from small to big, and this is great in helping me visualise the connection.

Thank you for this!

When I asked if Gravity is in fact a side effect of particle position (concentration) This is what I have in mind...Take a sponge (ordinary bath sponge) the sponge is made up of two components the random holes that occupy the majority of the sponge, then there is the actual material the 'network' of sponge lattice. now imagine this sponge is tiny...really really tiny, so tiny in fact that a tiny lepton or neutrino (or smaller) floats around the inside of the sponge.

in other words, there are walls that protect tiny particles from evaporating into the cosmic vacuum.

so how does this create gravity? I think, that the more particles that occupy more of this sponge, begin to bend and deform (much like squeezing a water soaked sponge) and I think all particles travel in a straight line, but because of this network of sponge 'spores' they are constantly being deflected by the walls that surround them. by the way, I believe the speed of light is also infinite, but as a result of particles of light constantly bouncing off these walls, its reduced to what the speed of light is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT7xJ0tjB4A

this very well known single split experiment makes perfect sense if you imagine that as the light is passing through the gates (split) the photons of light are actually continuing along a straight line, (shortest route) and because particles that gather together begin to deform the fabric of space (this sponge) the particles of light seem to diffract, but was is actually happening is the photons are being re-routed by the tiny concentration of matter along the walls of the gate(split).

to prove this idea, take the same laser and pass it through various splits made of varying degrees of density (one of lightweight plastic) another( dense lead) if this idea of a sponge is correct, then the denser the material the wider the diffraction beam projected onto the wall, and obviously the less dense the material the less the sponge is bending, the less the light will tend to bend which means the less the diffraction on the projected wall.

I have no idea if this makes any sense. but this is what I meant when I asked if Gravity is not a mysterious particle, but rather a side effect of particle concentrations (density)

also, in your very cool explanation, I noted you said pressure, does that include temperature? because surely even tiny particles have temperature? and if they do, then that means they can be frozen right? and their position locked?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on all of this stuff, I just love quantum mechanics and physics just don't have all the maths and brains to figure it out.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on all of this stuff, I just love quantum mechanics and physics just don't have all the maths and brains to figure it out.

I, too, have rather a lack of knowledge, so I tried to condense the important points made by Frank Wilczek from his book 'The Lightness of Being' into something I could refer to in a small lump/poem type summary. It kind of makes sense, but I can't really speak for all the exact particulars. I guess the mild 'pressure' has more to do with why the proton mass and energy is small, rather than with temperature.

[ddaker]

haha sweet!

[Nickola Tesla]

That is seriously awesome! I've never really pictured the chain of events from small to big, and this is great in helping me visualise the connection.

Thank you for this!

When I asked if Gravity is in fact a side effect of particle position (concentration) This is what I have in mind...Take a sponge (ordinary bath sponge) the sponge is made up of two components the random holes that occupy the majority of the sponge, then there is the actual material the 'network' of sponge lattice. now imagine this sponge is tiny...really really tiny, so tiny in fact that a tiny lepton or neutrino (or smaller) floats around the inside of the sponge.

in other words, there are walls that protect tiny particles from evaporating into the cosmic vacuum.

so how does this create gravity? I think, that the more particles that occupy more of this sponge, begin to bend and deform (much like squeezing a water soaked sponge) and I think all particles travel in a straight line, but because of this network of sponge 'spores' they are constantly being deflected by the walls that surround them. by the way, I believe the speed of light is also infinite, but as a result of particles of light constantly bouncing off these walls, its reduced to what the speed of light is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT7xJ0tjB4A

this very well known single split experiment makes perfect sense if you imagine that as the light is passing through the gates (split) the photons of light are actually continuing along a straight line, (shortest route) and because particles that gather together begin to deform the fabric of space (this sponge) the particles of light seem to diffract, but was is actually happening is the photons are being re-routed by the tiny concentration of matter along the walls of the gate(split).

to prove this idea, take the same laser and pass it through various splits made of varying degrees of density (one of lightweight plastic) another( dense lead) if this idea of a sponge is correct, then the denser the material the wider the diffraction beam projected onto the wall, and obviously the less dense the material the less the sponge is bending, the less the light will tend to bend which means the less the diffraction on the projected wall.

I have no idea if this makes any sense. but this is what I meant when I asked if Gravity is not a mysterious particle, but rather a side effect of particle concentrations (density)

also, in your very cool explanation, I noted you said pressure, does that include temperature? because surely even tiny particles have temperature? and if they do, then that means they can be frozen right? and their position locked?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on all of this stuff, I just love quantum mechanics and physics just don't have all the maths and brains to figure it out.

They have been frozen it is called boes einstien condenser or something like that and they just float around except for a little vibration fron the electrons.

[Nickola Tesla]

I have no Idea but I have A theory I am currently working on about dark matter. Gravity and dark matter are the same thing. Picture the universe as flat dark matter and once mass is introduced into it then you get a dip like a bowling ball sitting on a bed the dark matter begins to push up and out (trying to flatten itself out) while the dip in the universe is causing everything to come in around it. the dark matter cannot over come the mass but it does manage to push objects away at the same time the dip(gravity) pulls them in. Which causes the equilibrium, equal opposite reaction and makes things fall at the same rate. This is just the basics of the theory their is still a lot to iron out. I keep running into conservation of mass and energy but we know the world is finite so does that make us a closed system and if so does that mean that the black holes are going to give us all that mass and energy back their sucking up? really scientist have said they can measure the universe now how is that even possible if you have black holes do they just ignore the infinite hole? but any way I could go on all day I am trying to cut my ramblings short. or I could give you half witted formulas. The hardest thing is converting things into units that make since to the rest of our units of math. I don't know if this helped but I just had to get that off of my chest so I can get some sleep. Thanks P.S. Your going the speed of light when you move because if you wasn't you would blow up

[cosvis]

Hi to all.
I just came across your very interesting question. As I see it, gravity always has an attractive force because it is one of the most basic forces of nature; the gravitational and the kinetical forces of a quantum particle. The electromagnetic force is a stronger and it is a composite force; it can be attractive and repulsive because it is bi-polar; it consists of a positive pole and of a negative pole. A positive pole and a negative pole attract each other whereas two negative poles or two positive poles repulse each other.

Yours cosvis.

[vacuum-mechanics]

gravity always has an attractive force because it is one of the most basic forces of nature; the gravitational and the kinetical forces of a quantum particle.

Dear cosvis,

Why and how?

The electromagnetic force is a stronger and it is a composite force; it can be attractive and repulsive because it is bi-polar; it consists of a positive pole and of a negative pole. A positive pole and a negative pole attract each other whereas two negative poles or two positive poles repulse each other.

Why?

Sincerely,
Nimit
-------------------
www.vacuum-mechanics.com

[cosvis]

Hi Graybeard and all.

On the question why a unit of the electromagnetic force is greater than one unit of the gravity force, in my uderstanding, is due to the fact that the basic unit of the gravitational froce consists of one quantum particle where as the basic unit of the electromagnetic force is an electron. Now the electron consists of many quanta particles and thus is a much greater force. A quantum particle consists basically of equal and opposite gravitational and kinetical forces and according to Einstein's theory of relativity: E = M c^2; the quantum particle is the most basic quantity of energy in nature.
Yours Cosvis.

[Graybeard]

Hi Graybeard and all.

Whats Graybeard got to do with it ???