[AdamF]

Are they real or imaginary? That's the real question isn't it? Whether someone who does see them is actually seeing something that no one else sees for that time.... is that an illusion? It's a very broad sheet. Or maybe I'm in the wrong part of the forum and need to be under VISIONS.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by AdamF Are they real or imaginary? That's the real question isn't it? Whether someone who does see them is actually seeing something that no one else sees for that time.... is that an illusion? It's a very broad sheet. Or maybe I'm in the wrong part of the forum and need to be under VISIONS.

I think you meant to put this under the "illusions" thread.

As for "real" or "imaginary," you might take the express route and open the discussion to "qualia."

[michellemfry]

Real or Imaginary Time? That was the first thing that popped into my head when I read your thread. Does anyone think in imaginary time? So we have time, spacetime, imaginary time, entropy that increases with time, and on and on...and so is there no thing not intimate with time.There is something there, but I don't know what yet. It eludes me always. I may be lost in entropy for awhile.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by michellemfry Real or Imaginary Time? That was the first thing that popped into my head when I read your thread. Does anyone think in imaginary time? So we have time, spacetime, imaginary time, entropy that increases with time, and on and on...and so is there no thing not intimate with time. There is something there, but I don't know what yet. It eludes me always. I may be lost in entropy for awhile.

I think the best illustration was in the movie Contact. When Jodie Foster dropped in the alien transporter, only a fraction of a second elapsed for the observers. That would be "real time". However, after the taping devices inside the transporter were analyzed, it was found that over a half hour of elapsed recording had occurred. That would be "imaginary time" - time not accessible to entropic laws that we understand.

Nevertheless, Jodie's testimony afterwards was a story with various events occurring in sequence. That sequencing reveals a direction in time. Similarly, other sci-fi movies dealing with time travel also have sequencing "outside" of real time. For instance, Rod Taylor in The Time Machine traveled to the future and back. When back, he described many events in sequence. The key point is that his mind carried a sequencing which, IMO, reflected a separate time dimension for the mind. He had a memory of the time before venturing into the future, he then captured memories far in the future, then he returned and continued recording memories. Though the "real time" events jumped about, the character's personal memories (imaginary) remained in sequence. He knew the sequence of events - 1899, the year gazillion, and then 1900. Further, he knew every step of the way - in sequence.

Now, imaginary time, as portrayed in movies and fiction may just be that - fiction. However, if time is multi-dimensional, then it may be possible to have one of them attached to the mind - an imaginary time, if you will. To use weather systems as an analogy, thunderstorms (and their tornadoes) track from southwest to northeast in the U.S. However, this direction is the result of two processes. Frontal systems in the U.S. tend to move west to east. Meanwhile, thunderstorms track perpendicular to the front. As a result, they appear to move northeasterly. The faster the front, the more they track easterly. The slower the front the more northerly they track. Thus, the apparent motion is the result of two motions working together.

To extend this to the mind, perhaps time, as we perceive it, is actually multiple time dimensions working in combination.

Now, the issue of "work" and "energy" and "entropy" within one of the supposed multiple time dimensions is, probably, outside the grasp of the scientific method (or, at least, it is today). However, if entropy is the harbinger of time in "real time", then what is it in imaginary time? Or does entropy also exist in imaginary time? Perhaps it must. A very interesting question.

I hope the above was useful. Let me know if it muddied the water further.

[michellemfry]

Thank you again, JAK. I need to think about imaginary time some more. It has opened up a door with alot of other doors unexpectedly. Thanks for taking the time to write so much. I write short replies and I marvel at the long writings of others.