[Guille]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody Matter is just another manifestation of energy, life is another phase of matter, therefore life is a form of energy, an emergent quality of reorganization pursuant to the evolution of the laws of nature. I am thinking very broad here.

Mass is a kind of energy, not matter. I know what you mean by the post, but life itself cannot be described as being energy. Not if you are being scientific. Not if you want to make sense in physics. I think that in order to discuss life we should first define it. What is life?

[Mr. Nobody]

Particle accelerators convert energy into subatomic particles speak matter.
Hence my observation of matter being nothing more than condensed energy waves.

[force5]

Mr. Nobody and Michael;
I am very much in agreement with you. Although, I consider a beginning and ending to each cycle of the never ending process of expansion/contraction.
I would like to take it to the next level and state that this type of arrangement would require a closed system. Agree?

John

[mkirkpatrick]

We live and move and have our being in a living universe,where even the very
stones cry out for re-cognision,and we hear them not!All is alive,all is conscious.
and soon this will be common knowledge to all and sundry.but maybe not today.
We all have ideas,the man who built my house had an Idea,which he put down on a bit of paper,he then asked another man,the builder to constuct this here house,which he did,I now live in this house,and to think that where I now live
began as just an IDEA!would we then deny a superior Intelligence from doing
what we do each Day.where on a lower level we build a house from an idea,and on a higher level a universe is brought about Via an Idea,now that is something
to think about,any Ideas,anyone???
kind regards michael.

[Mr. Nobody]

Consciousness and self awareness is an emergent quality of complex systems. Is there a resemblence of awareness in ordinary matter? I tend to think not. Consciousness as understood for life is a result of pattern recognition and adaptive behaviour. Intent grown out of complexity will one day provide us with artificial consciousness in machines perhaps..........

[force5]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody Consciousness and self awareness is an emergent quality of complex systems. Is there a resemblence of awareness in ordinary matter? I tend to think not. Consciousness as understood for life is a result of pattern recognition and adaptive behaviour. Intent grown out of complexity will one day provide us with artificial consciousness in machines perhaps..........

I also agree on this point. I also believe this position rules out free will. Is anything really artificial? Or just another step in evolution.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by force5 I also agree on this point. I also believe this position rules out free will. Is anything really artificial? Or just another step in evolution.

Nothing is artificial. Everything is natural, there is no artificial thing just as there is no unnatural thing. All of what humans made is natural. Doesn't matter if it looks anti-ethical to us, which is the main use of unnatural now a days. It doesn't matter if it's the opposite of how nature itself would have done. It is natural, for nature is everything.

[force5]

Originally Posted by <<<GUILLE>>> Nothing is artificial. Everything is natural, there is no artifical thing just as there is no unnatural thing. All of what humans made is natural. Doesn't matter if it looks anti-ethical to us, which is the main use of unnatural now a days. It doesn't matter if it's the opposite of how nature itself would have done. It is natural, for nature is everything.

I think you're stating that we agree?

John

[mkirkpatrick]

Thought lies behind all that is manifest,and weare a product of thought,now we have always been in existence,But I has a beginning,the be-ginning of I is the dawn of Self-consciousness,to become self-aware,to be born of mindful aware-
ness,and the gainful awareness informs us that we are evolving into greater
conscious-expansion,and beginning to identify with our true nature,to discover
the seed that is within us,to throw light on to the secret of life inself!When that
happens all illusions will fade,like the mist on a sunny morning,and we will stand revealed in our true nature,and that is very-very-simple we all our one and our
all interconnected with the totality of the universe,energy is really just mind
think it over,ring any bells!

kind regards michael.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by force5 I think you're stating that we agree? John

NO. I'm stating what I believe, well, it's not only believe, it's done by philosophyzing, which has logic.

But, what do you think, there is anything artificial?