Had/have a lot of (bad) things going on in my life, so wasn't really into "toequesting" for some time. Was/am on a little quest of my own you could say .
Thanks Omini,do hope that all turns out right for you.And that your personel quest
brings you what you need.
warm regards michael.
__________________ Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
reveal herself?
To me, God is everything, including "nothingness." God is the univers, causality, Truth, falseness, math, you reading this, the computer, the refuse in the waste can - anything that can or can not be named is God. I came to this conclusion when I was about 20, and recently I have heard of others who believe the same and decided to call it the Totality. I like that name. I don't think God cares what we call it anyway.
To me, God is everything, including "nothingness." God is the univers, causality, Truth, falseness, math, you reading this, the computer, the refuse in the waste can - anything that can or can not be named is God. I came to this conclusion when I was about 20, and recently I have heard of others who believe the same and decided to call it the Totality. I like that name. I don't think God cares what we call it anyway.
Absolutely Elizibeth,I agree with you there 100%,the totality cares not what we call
it,unless it is late for dinner??
regards michael.
__________________ Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
reveal herself?
I just have such sympathy in amounts I cannot quite explain for anyone that tries to endure the romantic side of genes and the creative discussion of science. Some of the greatest have lost their composure in the face of the beauty of science, it's loveliness, it's loneliness. It's begging ways that it asks please do not give up on me, I am here for you always, in all ways.
I just have such sympathy in amounts I cannot quite explain for anyone that tries to endure the romantic side of genes and the creative discussion of science. Some of the greatest have lost their composure in the face of the beauty of science, it's loveliness, it's loneliness. It's begging ways that it asks please do not give up on me, I am here for you always, in all ways.
Glad to see you back posting,Michelle,hang on in there Girl.
regards michael.
__________________ Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
reveal herself?
Could feelings of God be just tricks of the mind, a deep rooted response to the idea? Bearing in mind that everything that we see is the processing of stimuli received through our senses, in a very narrow range of perception to what is physically available in nature.
Think back to fond memories of grandparents, or someone you have cared for who has died. Meditate on it, and the same sense of "spirit" will surround you. That doesn't mean they are really there with you, it simply means you have recalled the emotions surrounding that person. God is something that is placed in our minds from very early on, a comfort, friend, protector who we can rely on. Surely references made to him/her would stimulate the same type of emotional response resulting what may feel like his presence?
As to the question of God himself, perhaps we should differentiate between the now accepted God of love, and the creator.
I am fairly sure (if not completely sure) that the God of love doesn't exist. It simply does not add up that a god of this nature will allow this level of evil to exist in the world. He would not let innocent people and children die in war and in violent ways. Religion has found all sorts of ways to justify the non-intervention such as free will, but at the end of the day, God made the rules, and assuming that He also created time, could very easily unmake them. If there is a devil, how could God allow so much control to go to him. Is it because the devil challenged god and now god can't intervene otherwise he loses? God has destroyed cities in the bible for far less infringements than that. Why didn't God just will the devil straight out of existence? Assuming the state of our world is the work of satan, why is his work so blatently apparant, whereas God seems to be nowhere in defence of the good? Surely not the churches? They are high power sales people selling their product which is religion.
I like the argument Richard Dawkins makes. If God can see into the future, he can also see his own actions in the future. This would insist that his actions too are pre-determined, for if it was possible for God to change the future, his previous visions of it would have been incorrect thereby making Him inperfect. My variation of the same thing is that given that God can see the future, and also knows the heart of every man, he would also know that this is where we would end up, and considering he just about wiped out the entire planet with a flood for very similar violations, you'd think that in foresight he would have simply finished the job.
All religion is highly dependent on faith without question, and it is the new age of information, scientific breakthroughs that is making absolute faith more and more difficult. Is science then also the devil's work? Giving us means to save lives, explore our universe, make use of the power of the brain are all works of evil to discredit god? Then why give us intellect to question? Or is the whole thing part of some big test to see who will go to heaven and who will burn in hell. Looks to me as if the guys in heaven may not have much company. By the way, the promise of heaven is to spend eternity singing the praises of God. Surely the almighty has enough self-confidence not to require eternal ego-boosting?
As to the creator being something different altogether, this is possible, but the unanswerable question is where did it all start. God does not answer this because where did God start. Assuming He created time, and also that our minds are too small to understand that, it is possible to think that He may be the start. But it's just as probable that some other unexplainable and unnamed force also started the universe. Just because there is no proof, it does not mean it doesn't exist. So the probability of the beginning of everything being just about anything anyone can theorise is possible, so long as there is no way of disproving it including God, but there have been no wars fought, no martyrdom gained in the name of evolution.
It is clear to me that evolution exists. The reason why people reject this idea is because it's too raw, it's not mystical, and it doesn't make us somehow special like being hand crafted by God. It makes us survivors, the result of nature picking and choosing, cutting out the bad, filtering out what doesn't work. Whether or how God has / had a part in this or is another question, but the nature of evolution suggests not. Plus if we were perfectly designed, why would be get backache, diseases, abnormalities or anything for that matter because surely a perfect God would have made us perfectly for the environment He created to put us in.
The question is, could life go on without God? Would you still be you? Your personality, morality, sense of right and wrong? Perhaps without the false sense of comfort that life after death gives, we would value our lifetime far more and push ourselves to do and be everything we could. If we stopped trying to figure out who God is and worked on who WE are, and how we can help leave a positive legacy for our children in a free-thinking culture of respect, morality without the threat of hell fire, maybe we'd move towards a more tolerant and enlightened society.
Religion eventually collapsed, partly because of the wars and prejudice that it caused and because the science of two thousand years ago finally became obsolete and because life found on other planets had no such legends of God, but mostly because God was no longer seen to be a good role model and because the divinity of Jesus came into question along with everything else—making it all a wishful myth. The Europeans began the abandonment and the Americas soon followed. The general analysis follows, and was, amazingly, published way back in 2007 in a TOE forum:
The current God of the Old Testament, is an amalgamation of old Jewish legends of many imagined Gods rolled into one, and is followed as a leader, but, I suggest, is in reality not a leader or a role model at all, and is not someone that we really, deep down, would really wish to follow, imitate, emulate, adore, or be like.
He is an abuser, pure and simple. There is no way around it. God killed all life, excepting Noah and his family, in the Great Flood. This included all men, women, children and their pets. Furthermore, he erred in doing so since he is not all-knowing and supposedly created the rainbow to show that he would never do such a bad thing again. Although some would imitate his genocide, like Hitler, or Saddam, most of us wouldn’t. It was a rather large mistake for someone so infallible to make. “Whoops! I so easily wiped out everyone, but I won’t do it again”. Sure. How callous! God won’t even kill Satan, the total embodiment of Evil, but kills children and their kitty cats. There is no getting around this one with fancy cover-up words, like that he works in strange ways. Perhaps the bible is wrong? Of course it is—it contains only really old legends and superstitions.
His Original Sin blamed us at birth for the sins of our ancestors, Adam and Eve. We don’t usually do this to people who have bad ancestors. This is dead wrong.
Also, in Eden, he apparently wasn’t all-knowing in supposing that children certainly won’t want to touch that which they are forbidden to touch. Please don’t touch the apple. It’s was devious entrapment plan. Who would follow that example?
He grants free will, only to take it back by threatening to burn us forever if our will does not match his will. We good people would not hold a gun to someone’s head and say accept me or die. In God We Fear, it seems, not In God We Trust. Benevolent Gods don’t punish and torture creatures they make. Would you? He just doesn’t honor his creations as he would honor himself. Even hoards and hosts of intelligent angels didn’t like him.
The Christian concept of reward and punishment that is handed out by an omnipotent, omniscient God, is but derivative of the family experience, the child and parent—a conception of our world painted onto God’s. We didn’t ask to be born into rules and regulations and punishment.
God’s actions are more like Satan’s—although Satan hasn’t done such yet. Not to mention why God allows the Devil to even exist to tempt our very human nature that God himself created in us. Doesn’t God abhor evil? Did he goof in granting us strong drives, only to say not to use them? Did he fill the glass of our human nature overflowing to the brim and then say not to spill it?
Perhaps he is a rather poor craftsman, or is no good himself, for we are made in his image, he says. He tries to blame everyone (us) for all of his mistakes Would we good people do that?. He tells people, like Abraham, to sacrifice (kill) their children.
All of the above is why many churches have abandoned God (of the Old testament) and turned to Jesus, a fine human, as their central figure—but, wait, who is he the son of or part of? God the Father. The problem returns. The vengeful one is still the leader.
And how is his insanity explained away—by saying the he works in mysterious (insane) ways. This admits that he is terrible and not a good role model.
Why did Jesus die for our sins when we merely—in the Catholic church—have to confess them and have them washed away forever. Not to mention that we did not even exist or commit sins when Jesus died for them.
How arbitrary is it that the Jews say Jesus wasn’t even Godlike or even God’s messenger—and they were even there at the time. or that Islam says that Mohammed was the prophet, not Jesus. Or that the Mormons say that Jesus was in America for his first 30 years. Or that the Lutherans say that Mary was not special. Or committing the most heinous crimes and then being forgiven upon repenting, as the Catholics believe. Well, you get the picture—all the beliefs are arbitrary. The sad part is that many of the religious of one belief would be espousing some of these other beliefs had they been born into other religions. Beliefs are mostly geographical, familial, sociological, not to mention illogical, but, we often believe legends that are drilled into us. Jesus is a good human as are many others like Gandhi, Buddha, and Mother Teresa.
There have been many such savior myths such as Jesus throughout the ages. People joining cults still fall for those who say they are from god and they always will. People want, want, want rewards and afterlife. The founders of the religions were all ‘divinely inspired’, but, were each told a different story; now we know that their visions were but psychotic episodes—hallucinations and voices. As for priest’s ‘callings’, only 2% of the world’s population tens toward schizo, but 17% of priests do.
This is not even to mention that so many religions are contradictory in very major areas, and therefore as arbitrary as belief in Zeus or the Sun God. Are we religious because of geographical or sociological ‘learning’. Is religion, being a major part of culture, one of the differences that leads to so many wars?
How intolerant are we of those who differ. Naturally, people like to think they are special and above the animals, but our DNA is 98% similar to a chimp’s. 95% identical to a gorilla’s. We are closer to chimps that chimps are to gorillas. Two of our chromosomes fused together and so we can no longer mate with chimps, their number of chromosomes now differing from ours by one. We are not so special afterall—this is the ultimate humility—to realize that we are part and parcel of the organic world, rare and smart, yes, but electrochemical biological beings.
And what of the natural human need to explain the universe? We beg the question by assigning God to that cause and thereby only compose a larger problem: how do we explain God? A larger God? Suddenly, an even larger quandary doesn’t even need answering. The same answers that serve for God’s birth can serve for the birth of the Universe. Why add an extra step?
Nor was the world created in six days or 6000 years—we can see many billions of years into the past with telescopes, for that is how long the light took to reach us.
As for no sex without procreation, this goes against all evolution. As for evolution, there is a fossil record beyond doubt.
Now the Pope says no football or sports on Sunday—not that I would watch it anyway. We must really think hard if we wish to follow a non role model who is vengeful and controlling and punishing. Out of fear? But this is not how it is, really, for belief in God is but a superstition. I merely wish to point out the absurdities of it all.
As for the church, they once thought that physical illnesses were caused by evil spirits and devils, for they didn’t know about germs and viruses. Do they fall into the same trap now with mental ills called sins?
Does the Devil cause aberrant thoughts or does low serotonin cause it—the neurotransmitter that regulates mood—yes, indeed, strange moods are molecular events, nothing more, due to chemical imbalances in the brain. Even now, this is known. How many decades will it take the church to get the news? Add a low heart rate—meaning no anxiety or guilt—to someone, along with chemical imbalances causing unmanaged anger—and you have someone who may rob a gas station and kill.
As for only allowing men to become Catholic priests and requiring them to be celibate, we know what unnatural results of child abuse came from that unnatural practice. Why discriminate against women? Would you? God needs a girlfriend!
The Lord requires adoration and worship—would we do that if we made life or do we require that from our pets? Or would we just give love with no strings attached? Perhaps we wouldn’t if we had low self-esteem like the Lord. So, let us adore and worship him over and over. He even gets jealous and envious of strange gods/idols before him. Why does he covet and require approval, adoration, worship and much praise. Would we do that?
And his emotional system with such temper outbursts! Like any system, it is composite and depends on what underlies reality for its existence, for these parts are needed to make a system. Perhaps he needs Prozac. In any case, he is NOT a good example to follow, much less adore.
Did he save you from a car accident, only to kill the poor sap behind you? Does he give you a sunny day for your wedding or give the farmer a rainy day for his crops? Did you beg for favors and get ahead by ‘cheating’, that is, having outside help, or did you make it on your own? Did you pick up litter on a beach because it was the right thing to do or because God might be watching?
Who is the worst role model? God, who says “Vengeance is mine alone.” or a God who would say “You can take away all my powers but love”?
The days are long gone when we had to revere the Sun God or be thrown out of the tribe, but that’s how adherence to superstition began. How about astrology? It is still followed.
Think of how silly it is to believe in an invisible man up in the sky who never once even said a word. Or did he talk through Mohammed? Of course not. You don’t believe in Mohammed You get it now—even your superstition is arbitrary. God, or Allah, or Jehovah, or Yahweh, whatever his alias, is a terrorist and is wanted for crimes against humanity, and is certainly not a good role model to follow.
Ok, I like you already. But why is it so very difficult for others to see this?
I understand they may be indoctinated, but surely if the facts are in the very book, loud and clear that is supposed to be your handbook to life, you can't overlook them?
The problem is people... The people who run the religion who tell the masses what to believe. I have a blog on another site where I have VERY lightly touched on this. Already a storm is brewing. I'm enjoying the contraversy, but the interesting thing is the absolute hatred these people have for anyone that disagrees with them. Far cry from the teachings of love, forgiveness and acceptance.
We could add to it that a Bishop in Kenya says his DNA is not related to a very ancient Kenyan near-man ancestor that they dug up, except that it is.
Also, homosexuality seems to be an accident of birth, not something curable, the brain not being masculinized when the body is. (or is masculinized when the body is female). They are two separate processes and should both happen together, but don't always do.
Re: Who is your God? (or not) 
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