[harmonygirl]

thank you Chazzysaw. I agree almost entirely with your enlightened views. I just don't think that evil is in control of our lives on this planet (entirely that is). I have been lucky enought to travel reasonably extensively and have had my faith in the humility and goodness of people restored. I think we see greed and ego so much that we begin not to notice the small things that exemplify to selflessness. But I think it is there.

[jim barlow]

Chazzysaw I agree with your sentiment, especially about the evil inherent in the god concept. Instead of "evil" I would substitue things like "knowing what's good for me" or being at the right place at the right time, picking one's gods judiciously etc. Otherwise one man's poison can be another man's medicine.

Even with the plague. The virus (or whatever) I'm sure blesses every sick person for the opportunity.

But I agree with your sentiment which says to me: I know what I am about and the rest is another matter entirely.

[chazzysaw]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl

thank you Chazzysaw. I agree almost entirely with your enlightened views. I just don't think that evil is in control of our lives on this planet (entirely that is). I have been lucky enought to travel reasonably extensively and have had my faith in the humility and goodness of people restored. I think we see greed and ego so much that we begin not to notice the small things that exemplify to selflessness. But I think it is there.

Harmony I would love to agree with you, I wish I could see what you see, but I see something different. I feel right now we are a primitive being. We don't know the difference between what is harmful to us or what is not.This evil can also be discribed as ignorance and what makes ignorance so evil is refusing to learn and accepting change. Ignorance mixed with selfishness and add some ego to it and we have a human mess. When we realize we are all on the same boat, then maybe. We are killing each other in wars, people are starving due to gluttney, children are in the streets because of greed they glorify the drug dealer or the thief. Right now evil has us by the neck, but I feel we are slowly shaking loose. You are right about appreciating the small things. I know people like you that see the goodness,thank God for that. I see you as saviors of the world.

[harmonygirl]

Chazzysaw, thanks for that (very flattering) but I believe these things are there for us to see, if we are open to seeing. I agree with you about the state of the world generally. I belong to several social justice listserves and usually end up in tears each morning over something stupid that we're doing to ourselves. I think the only way to cope with the amount of ignorance, ego and greed we see is to try to see the things that aren't promulgated by the system, the small instances of selflessness that show that we aren't dead, just yet. The more I experience the world, the more I meet people like yourself, who believe in social justice, the more I have faith in us.

[Mr. Nobody]

I am a firm believer in the science of evolution and anthropy. However we arrived here, whatever caused us to organize, is the reason for how we perceive our environment. If you can take yourself out of this process that produced your brain, your consciousness, your ego, if you can for a moment divorce yourself from history, from your body and your perceptions, you will find a world, a cosmos with very little reason or compassion. Man is a product of his environment and the search for an explanation to existence is a reflection of that.
If we can get past the sense of separeteness and distinctiveness, we will realize that our thoughts are the thoughts of the cosmos, the universe looking in, the cell of a body trying to explain itself without knowing the whole picture.
No God, no evil, just presence in the form of the everlasting energy that is existence.

[ANDY J]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

I am a firm believer in the science of evolution and anthropy. However we arrived here, whatever caused us to organize, is the reason for how we perceive our environment. If you can take yourself out of this process that produced your brain, your consciousness, your ego, if you can for a moment divorce yourself from history, from your body and your perceptions, you will find a world, a cosmos with very little reason or compassion. Man is a product of his environment and the search for an explanation to existence is a reflection of that.
If we can get past the sense of separeteness and distinctiveness, we will realize that our thoughts are the thoughts of the cosmos, the universe looking in, the cell of a body trying to explain itself without knowing the whole picture.
No God, no evil, just presence in the form of the everlasting energy that is existence.

Very well put, however i believe that the evolution of the universe and all things is following instructions through the use of information i don't suspect every aspect of our life's is planned but i do believe their is a plan to the overall picture.
This information must have been input before the big bang and is everywhere and in all things so to disregard God would be to disregard any designer, just as the discovery of DNA the information on how to construct us has been discovered so other types of informations for the construction of the universe will one day be discovered i suppose this will be the TOE.
No evil, if evil can be experienced it exists for that individual not for the universe its not in the design its a byproduct of evolution.

[harmonygirl]

Andj, I agree, especially with your take on individual evil, vs. universal evil.
Mr. Nobody, when I divorce myself from myself, my history, my body, etc, I find th very opposite of a compassionless universe, I find interconnection and unity and harmony and humility. Maybe the difference in our experiences is that you can never fully divorce yourself from yourself, etc. If you experience the ALL, it must include you. Once womankind realizes this, it may be easlier to exist in harmony.

[Mr. Nobody]

Maybe compassion is the wrong word. I am more thinking along the lines of indifference. The one thing that I have come to understand and appreciate is, that as I gaze upon the stars and let myself go, let myself wonder out from this prison of earthly existence, I get delighted by feelings of insignificance and all the worries, all the troubles of everyday life, the stresses, the sorrows disappear with it as well. For me Nirvana, or a pure state of nothingness, seems welcomed after a life long struggle with fundamental questions in terms of justice, righteousness, reasoning and the logic of it all. Perhaps Lady Harmony is right, perhaps I cannot, by definitions of harboring individual thoughts, completely divorce myself from myself, from my earthly shell, perhaps I aim to do that but still fail and perceive only reflections of my own thoughts. Be that as it may, I prefer my world of random injustice, indifference, reasonless existence to a reality where we are witness to true battles of existential Good and Evil.
It seems as though I lead an unhappy life and the funny thing is it is quite the opposite. I am truly content and very happy with my lot. I have made plenty mistakes, have paid many dues, have struggled like everyone else and so far have managed to do relatively well. So why these thoughts? I suppose they are a reflection of the giant scale of the cosmos and my beliefs of the totality of randomness and adaptation as indifferent selectors for survival of the fittest.

[harmonygirl]

thanks Mr. Nobody, that helps me understand. Once upon a time, I had a difficult time understanding why nothingness was a desired outcome in many Eastern spiritual practices. Your explanation is erudite and (in my view) accurate. I have also struggled (and struggle still!) with questions of justice, fairness and equality for quite a while. that right and wrong are culturally, societally and hence, artificially proscribed, is a conclusion that I have reached because of this thread. Notions of the Goddess, or Great Spirit or Universe, don't in and of themselves contain these ideas, which have been made to serve political and economic masters. Most organized religions have betrayed the fundamental nature of the Goddess, but I still feel her out there. Maybe that's me.

[kobyisland]

That is a very complicated ? Herodotus, the father of history, 5th century BC said, " nothing is neither right nor wrong its only thinking makes it so ".