[mkirkpatrick]

I would like to propose for a theory this following concept.Within the noumenon,in a transcentdantcy "outside of spacetime" where absolute motionlessness reigned supreme,there arose within that awesome void the point of a manifested Idea!The Point of the Idea,became the portal where
the noumenon transfigured and translated into Phenomena,and ushered in
the birth of manifestation,the universe as we hardly know it today.Thispoint of entry has been known by some as the Protyle atom.As this "concept" of
manifestation rolled forever outwards,outforming the void,matter as we know
it today did not exist,there was if you like a super dense form,which now has
evolved into lighter form and fluid energy.
This Idea of universal manifestation is still outworking,and will continue for a while longer?Well it is just a theory.

kind regards michael.

[WithoutMe]

A "Theory" exists in relation to a Phenomenon.
Noumenon cannot have a theory, the noumenon, if is, simply is... a theory meaning the relationships of it in terms of Causality; & noumenon, if is, doesnt have any sort of causality to it, buit its not random either, coz it is not antri-causal, it si simply deviod of all such connections, coz to start with, there r no divisions of cause & effect..... there (if is) what is the cause, is the effect... infact it is an illusion to think or take the Noumenon in terms of cause & effect.... a noumenon cannot have a theory.... Kant shud have met me before writing such a fat book...hehehehe!

Regards,
wM.

[mkirkpatrick]

Withoutme,many thanks for your most insightful reply.
You say a noumenon cannot have a theory!And that a theory exists in relation to a phenomenon!Well okay I can see the logic there,and can also
see how this idea occured to you.In trying somewhat vainly to put into words
that which is beyond verbilization,must still try though!The indescribable I
suppose could well be the name for the noumenon?All existance "springs" forth from "it"that which has no name!An idea is arisen in the formless void
and becomes "clothed" in the "form-all-ised ,which is by now rapidly becoming
"phenomenon" and "taking shape"?The idea becoming "formed" and made Whole?


kind regards michael.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by WithoutMe A "Theory" exists in relation to a Phenomenon. Noumenon cannot have a theory, the noumenon, if is, simply is... a theory meaning the relationships of it in terms of Causality; & noumenon, if is, doesnt have any sort of causality to it, buit its not random either, coz it is not antri-causal, it si simply deviod of all such connections, coz to start with, there r no divisions of cause & effect..... there (if is) what is the cause, is the effect... infact it is an illusion to think or take the Noumenon in terms of cause & effect.... a noumenon cannot have a theory.... Kant shud have met me before writing such a fat book...hehehehe! Regards, wM.

I agree with you. But science accepted this, it dedicated to phenomena and cause-effect but has failed. Why? Because for the last century, things were so complicated, and going in such a circular exact way, that it needed to start being based on uncertainty. Not only physics, but all science. Probability and statistics govern science now. That means the exact circular explanations of cause-effect relation has failed. How to do science from now on? Are we condemned to keeping this probability-statistics terrible duality for ever and ever? I hope not.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Guille I agree with you. But science accepted this, it dedicated to phenomena and cause-effect but has failed. Why? Because for the last century, things were so complicated, and going in such a circular exact way, that it needed to start being based on uncertainty. Not only physics, but all science. Probability and statistics govern science now. That means the exact circular explanations of cause-effect relation has failed. How to do science from now on? Are we condemned to keeping this probability-statistics terrible duality for ever and ever? I hope not.

So do I my friend,maybe we can all bring about a change in science,by posting on this forum,and lobbying tutors at college to update the work and tune into the latest ideas.

kind regards michael.

[WithoutMe]

Originally Posted by Guille I agree with you. But science accepted this, it dedicated to phenomena and cause-effect but has failed. Why? Because for the last century, things were so complicated, and going in such a circular exact way, that it needed to start being based on uncertainty. Not only physics, but all science. Probability and statistics govern science now. That means the exact circular explanations of cause-effect relation has failed. How to do science from now on? Are we condemned to keeping this probability-statistics terrible duality for ever and ever? I hope not.

So, as we see it, Science has failed & so has Philosophy. So, cant it be there is a mistake in our trying to search for it?

May be we shud give up on all our missions towards the Noumenon!

Regards,
wM.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by WithoutMe So, as we see it, Science has failed & so has Philosophy. So, cant it be there is a mistake in our trying to search for it? May be we shud give up on all our missions towards the Noumenon! Regards, wM.

Withoutme,I can truly understand why you say this,regard giving up missions
toward the noumenon,but I feel we should persist in this endevour.It will open up areas of understanding,that as yet we have no awareness of.


kind regards michael.

[Guille]

Well, partly postmodernism is that, giving up the reality, sense, meaning, direction and depth of things, thoughts, states, and centering on what we percieve, interpret, feel, will... But that isn't all so positive as it seems to be, as it appears. This is the completion of the phenomenology, by which science and philosophy end up being the same thing. We should find a way of searching the truth, studying the noumenon, questing the toe, without the illusions, limitations and un-practicallness of metaphysics and exact science.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Guille Well, partly postmodernism is that, giving up the reality, sense, meaning, direction and depth of things, thoughts, states, and centering on what we percieve, interpret, feel, will... But that isn't all so positive as it seems to be, as it appears. This is the completion of the phenomenology, by which science and philosophy end up being the same thing. We should find a way of searching the truth, studying the noumenon, questing the toe, without the illusions, limitations and un-practicallness of metaphysics and exact science.

I could not agree with you more,well said amigo,I suggest that you are the
champion of this noble quest,I will support you any way I can!

kindest regardsmichael

[r.p.bibra]

how an idea takes birth in the mind or a wave in an ocean? it is because of the external 'disturbances' that these phenomena originate! who activates the latent energy in the Original-Particle? obviously,at the time there was no 'external' as the big-crunch had contracted all the matter into that Single-Particle! who puts consciousness in the foetus of the mother's womb exactly on the 72nd day of its conception? little-self.