[Guille]

Originally Posted by jonnyflashbang He sees no conflict between the two.

I do. Religion doesn't have rationality and even less empiricism.

[r.p.bibra]

Originally Posted by jonnyflashbang I think we are both saying the same thing, in different language. Ancient Hindu Mantras speak of vibration as being the secret of the cosmos, all forms of meditation are about tuning the mind into the universe, focusing the mind. Enlightenment could be an increase in ones vibration, allowing access to the universe. Sometimes religious people make the best scientists, Einstein and that dude who invented the Maser & Laser, his personal quest for the last few decades has been to try and unite science and religion. He sees no conflict between the two.

Meditation. There is only one form of meditation, only modern godmen have abused this sacred science into short-cut 'methodology' of body-muscles relaxation.Meditation is steadiness (stillness) of the mind i.e., focusing it in the present. In fact it is a spiritual discipline which involves not only the 'stillness of mind' but normalization of our senses, even before that! Mind has to be withdrawn from the external world and turn its direction inward by keeping the senses in firm and steady control. It has three stages: concentration, contemplation and then meditation. Spiritual sadhna (discipline) is a highly evolved science, which requires the discipline of body-senses-mind-intellect& simultaneously the development of our latent five fundamental human values viz., truth, righteousness, peace, love and non-violence and rendering their fruits in the service of the society without any selfish motive! It is a tall order my dear, not to be taken that lightly

[r.p.bibra]

he might already be enjoying the fruits of His labor, by granting human beings the gift of 'free-will',or the likes of you would not be closing your eyes(of wisdom) like an owl,who refuses to open its eyes to acknowlidge the existence of (sun)light which is there for all to see! perhaps scientists like you created the cosmos,put cosciousness into it and life came into being!now you would create an ameoba& start the cycle of life over again,without the per-eminence of Supreme-Inteligence,as the 'acquired' intelligence of lg., is enough to activate 'activity'(energy) in the cosmic-egg and lo,behold,there will be big-bang, as lg. has already set in regression the process of big-crunch! with his 'knowledge---oh scientific,provable mathematical models---he will peep in the event horizon,go right into the soup of creational chaos&bring us the fundamentals of toe.wish him all the luck,as with 'theory' he will impart us the secrets which shall empower us to erect a parellel nature, like our ancient sage vishamittra did!with love&regards.ls.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Ahh...dear bibra, you take this spiritual foolishness, far, far too seriously. Lighten up, there's a real world of good honest, hard working, non-believers out here...

regards,

Originally Posted by r.p.bibra he might already be enjoying the fruits of His labor, by granting human beings the gift of 'free-will',or the likes of you would not be closing your eyes(of wisdom) like an owl,who refuses to open its eyes to acknowlidge the existence of (sun)light which is there for all to see! perhaps scientists like you created the cosmos,put cosciousness into it and life came into being!now you would create an ameoba& start the cycle of life over again,without the per-eminence of Supreme-Inteligence,as the 'acquired' intelligence of lg., is enough to activate 'activity'(energy) in the cosmic-egg and lo,behold,there will be big-bang, as lg. has already set in regression the process of big-crunch! with his 'knowledge---oh scientific,provable mathematical models---he will peep in the event horizon,go right into the soup of creational chaos&bring us the fundamentals of toe.wish him all the luck,as with 'theory' he will impart us the secrets which shall empower us to erect a parellel nature, like our ancient sage vishamittra did!with love&regards.ls.

[r.p.bibra]

lg;ls., likes your being honesty about your convictions. at least we know where you stand, but world is full of hypocrites: be the way you are; but remember whether you believe or not, it doesn't matter, nothing is going to change, just because lg., is an agnostic or atheist! "good, honest" these words seem strange coming from you, as your behavior(language control)is anything but polite or humble; egoistic one can never be selfless or self-sacrificing. bill gates came to India (a poor country) only once but he bowled us all by his humility. It is heard he has committed half his wealth (appx.30billion) in the cause for healthcare (aid). Humility is a quality of human beings, who believe in human values, which you are contemptuous about. You are a unhappy man? Start loving your-self, love for others will start oozing from you. Mp&ic are good examples, they both have sharp intellect but humble.love&regards.ls.

[Graybeard]

Lots of things have no beginning and no end .... everything that never was .. why do we need to infer a circle ??

It could just be, that God doesn't exist

Actually .... 'lots of things' doesn't make a lot of sense if they never were. How do you refer to something that never was.

Perhaps our primitive ancestors had the best word for this 'God'

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Bibra, if anyone in the world could actually scientifically truly define love, I might believe you, but until that day comes, I'll choose other known truths. You don't know me at all, and it's really sad, you never will, for your prejudice only sees and accepts your own kind. I think that is the saddest prejudice of any kind. Bill Gates is a damn crook, no matter how he acts___he stole everything that got him where he's at, and continues to sabotage all other's competition with his products___great example you pick. You see, this is what I mean about believing in false love, far, far too much. It's the world's greatest and worst predator of the world's good and innocent spirits, standing on a very evil pedestal. I choose to defend all the world's innocent women and children, I can, from the evils of too much false love, thanks anyway. BTW, I was raised with all those lies, and I am quite grateful, and happy, I'm still not blinded by the false veils of that severe dishonesty. I know you think you're honest, but as Bob Dylan said, "If you could only see you from inside my shoes...," or "I wish you could stand inside my shoes, and see you...," etc... That's the mystery you're un-aware of, or as Mick Jaggar said, "What's puzzling you, is the nature of my game." You see, Bibra, no matter how you see, how I react to your dishonesty, I see myself as a better human being, than what I know as truely evil dishonesty...

The prankster,
Lloyd

Originally Posted by r.p.bibra lg;ls., likes your being honesty about your convictions. at least we know where you stand, but world is full of hypocrites: be the way you are; but remember whether you believe or not, it doesn't matter, nothing is going to change, just because lg., is an agnostic or atheist! "good, honest" these words seem strange coming from you, as your behavior(language control)is anything but polite or humble; egoistic one can never be selfless or self-sacrificing. bill gates came to India (a poor country) only once but he bowled us all by his humility. It is heard he has committed half his wealth (appx.30billion) in the cause for healthcare (aid). Humility is a quality of human beings, who believe in human values, which you are contemptuous about. You are a unhappy man? Start loving your-self, love for others will start oozing from you. Mp&ic are good examples, they both have sharp intellect but humble.love&regards.ls.

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie Bill Gates is a damn crook, no matter how he acts___he stole everything that got him where he's at, and continues to sabotage all other's competition with his products

Lloyd .. I can understand your emotion ... but surely your aim is a little inaccurate. Bill Gates has been extremely successful using all the capitalist tools at his disposal. Tools that Capitalism considers fair play.

From where I sit, unlike many other Capitalists he has not revealed an urge for politics. Under the guiding hand of entrenpaneurs many people benefit ... regardless of the entrepeneurs disposition. He has bought communications to the world, cheaper, better and more complete than any human in history.

You should vent your energy on the loopholes in the system.

cool bananas .. greg

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Bill Gates is a damn crook. It doesn't matter whether it's him or anyone rich. I hate the rich, always have, always will___period. I have that right, as a U.S. citizen... BTW Greg, they are the system, and only they are...!!! The rich believe in stealing from the poor, no matter what anyone says. Talk to em sometime about the minimum wage should be $20.00 per hour, and watch em growl and cuss. They are the most prejudiced of humankind, against the poor, no matter how much they pretend otherwise. One has to realize, that to pay anyone these days, less than $20.00 per hour, is truly stealing that persons labor liberty, and running em into the ground, and there's no other way to cut it. All the rich have to do is wake up and realize it doesn't have to be the way they are___we can re-computerize this entire planet into a truly fair, workable system of equilibriating laws, if everyone would just wake up. I tried all through the `90's to wake em up, and finally realized it was impossible, unless I had a mammoth or dangerous idea. I decided that idea must be a new invention of physics, even if a bigger, badder bomb, if necessary, to wake this sleeping giant up. I'm still working on it. I do know of one, but I can't publish it___it's far too lethal...

thanks,
Lloyd

Originally Posted by Graybeard Lloyd .. I can understand your emotion ... but surely your aim is a little inaccurate. Bill Gates has been extremely successful using all the capitalist tools at his disposal. Tools that Capitalism considers fair play. From where I sit, unlike many other Capitalists he has not revealed an urge for politics. Under the guiding hand of entrenpaneurs many people benefit ... regardless of the entrepeneurs disposition. He has bought communications to the world, cheaper, better and more complete than any human in history. You should vent your energy on the loopholes in the system. cool bananas .. greg

[r.p.bibra]

the best course would be, we should stop reforming others, and clean our house first. would it not be better if we stop throwing mud, as it would soil others too; there would be no meeting ground between the 'intellectuals(your kind) and the religionists, who are narrow minded and live within the enclosures of their doctrines, which are in conflict to others. We often inflate our ego sky-high on the basis of acquired knowledge (ak). Ak is not intelligence, as intelligence is ‘something’ which innovates, creates, not duplicate/emulate, we can learn more about cosmology from prof. hawking’ books than the contributions of some ‘intellectuals’ ,who like the ls., enjoy a free luncheon in toe---courtesy Roberts’ .love&regards.ls.
ps.by the way,ls. Had stopped all interaction with your mighty-self,not that he dislikes you---he loves all, but he cannot bear the burden of your ego. His puny-self can’t stand the daggle of your ‘ ak.