Science 'versus' God?

[melanie]

conscience is not consciousness,

even though the words sound similar.

That is correct austin.

AS CONscience implies Twoness = Phantom .. Re-Membering.

Consciousness IS Om ni Science = ONENESS < < < < < Double translation-Read left to right .. or right to left.
__________________


Figuratively speaking not literal.

"Material development may be likened to the glass of a lamp, whereas divine virtues and spiritual susceptibilities are the light within the glass.
The lamp chimney is worthless without the light;
likewise, man in his material condition requires the radiance and vivification of the divine graces and merciful attributes.

Without the presence of the Holy Spirit he is lifeless.
Although physically and mentally alive, he is spiritually dead. Christ announced,
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit,"
meaning that man must be born again.
As the babe is born into the light of this physical world, so must the physical and intellectual man be born into the light of the world of Divinity."

[melanie]

Austin:
Many acivities, such as those already learned, like driving a car, don’t need much attendance of the awareness of consciousness;

Knowledge on demand is Okay.. like when driving a car

Austin:
however, learning to drive needs full consciousness.

[greenbug]

Oh boy I didnt think it would be that big of a deal.. I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make it a debate. I was just saying I kind of think of it as the same process.

Its like a computer (consciousness) and hard drive (conscience). The computer doesn’t work right without the hard drive (you could argue that but I’m trying to make it simple). The hard drive does nothing without the computer. So from my perspective they go ‘hand in hand’ you need one to make the other work properly.

I’m not saying they are the same or that they are not defined differently. There is a distinct difference I agree but the way I see it, its pointless to think of them as separate because they don’t work separately.

My friend from work said someone might not have a conscience. That is a matter of perspective and up for debate because there maybe something they consider as good or bad, right or wrong, what they will do or wont do. Its just not what someone else thinks and so their conscience is different or has different programming but its still there. Unless the person in question is missing a frontal lobe or has some sort of damage there.

Again sorry just making my self clear.

[Mikal]

So far their silence on this topic is deafening.

My response, among all the other other natural selection stuff everywhere, was

Some always follow conscience to the good; some may follow only to rectify a guilty conscience; some seem to have no conscience at all, being immune to anxiety or whatever alerts us to it.

Look to the evolution, in some with good conscience, of the anxiety that attends guilty choices, and why it arose. It became of cooperation and the survival of the tribe at large. The total animal-like violence of early man redirected to protect its own group and cooperate on the hunt for the killing of animals gave more impetus to the caring about one’s fellows and the helpless little ones looked after by their mothers at home.

To do the right thing for its own sake is of the highest worth, for it is not done just because God might be looking.

That there are those with little conscience with end up on death row or in prison shows that the selection process is still at work.

Lessor instances just end up having a poor life or fading away. The Catholic Church has a guilty conscience about harassing scientists and altar boys.

Side note: conscience is not consciousness, even though the words sound similar.

Hi Austin...possibly we should look at those in prison through a process which seems unique to the experience of life....MAJOR MESSING UP PRECEDES MAJOR GROWING UP.

Possibly we should not look at people as EVIL because all people are our brothers and sisters purely because we share the commonality of being a brotherhood of humanity...

Possibly we should not say that people are evil but that their consciousness is created wrong, they do not understand the energy they work with in life and their intent runs on a polarity of negative rather than postive....

I am convinced that through enculturation and conditioning we create our own killers in our society and there is surely enough evidence out there that some of our worst killers were created by gov. funded projects that were investigating mind control...
I suggest you read the trilology of Peter Levenda called Sinister Forces for a more insightful understanding of this entire issue....


Mikal

[Profpat]

I agree Mikal, but confused people can do some very evil acts. And while their evil acts may be caused by their confusion they should still be punished. Hitler for example.

[Mikal]

Yes Prof...Hitler is probably our greatest opportunity to examine what we call evil. Do you know the details of his entire story?? It is quite interesting indeed because of course his story goes into political manipulation by those who were quite wealthy and powerful. As author Sybille Steinbacher states..."Auschwitz was the focus of two main ideological ideas of the Nazi regine: it was the biggest stage for the mass murder of European jewry and at the same time the crystallization point of the policy of settlement and Germanization. It was here that extermination, forced-labour deployment and the conquest of living space merged in conceptual, temporal and spatial terms."
Steinbacher lays out quite cleverly how Hitler a mere nobody was manipulated for political agendas clearly only understood by examining the historical and political space in which the crimes were committed. When you wade deep enough in that examination it is a good critical analysis of what we call evil....

Evil acts should be punished becomes a paradox when we examine the issue of recidivism. I think it becomes a paradox because of course professionalizing prison punishment means it is our economy and the basis of lifestyle and career. Is the objective to rehabilitate lost in the nuance of continually strengthening job and career prospectives afterall true rehabilitation would mean cases of return would dwindle....job and profession might weaken....I think it gets very complex when we agree to think about it outside the box....I mean what really supports the over-riding motivation???


Mikal

[Profpat]

Hi Mikal;

I don't judge Hitler, or at least if I do, I know I shouldn't. It is up to him, his conscience and God to do the judging. By commiting suicide he chose the ultimate punishment.

If people are violent in society, (I'm not talking about being on drugs), then they should be incarcerated, forever if necessary, to protect society, from their antisocial violent nature. This can be in mental hospitals, prisons, exile etc. Again, I'm not judging them, only their behavior. Unfortunately you can't seperate the individual from their behavior.

Best,

Pat

[Mikal]

Oh I understand completely what your saying here Prof...I am just saying that in another sense the entire issue has deeper levels it is always wise to examine and understand also....

It might also be wise to understand that if we were not enculturated but instead socialized there may not be a high level of anti-social behavior in our societies afterall society is the place we must be for more than three quarters of our life....strong integration to our own society would alleviate a lot of our social problems....


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Good post, Prof, about prison.

We don't so much lock them up to let them ponder the crimes and perhaps grow wiser, although that's a part of it, but also to protect society, as you said.

Guess they are not really guilty, since their brains made them do it. Ha-ha, but maybe not really, if that's true.

There are a unusual amount of prisons around where I live, Greenhaven being a super max one. That's where I got the idea for Rascal's KGB prison break in the story in the 'Magical' thread. Not sure if there are a bunch of mind-controllers in there, but, in a way, perhaps that's what they are.

[Mikal]

I prefer to examine serious issues such as this from a spirit of compassion and hope in my heart....for no man is lesser than me, it is only that his fall was greater.....


Mikal