Science 'versus' God?

[Profpat]

Hi Melanie;

While it may appear that I try to prove God's existence I don't. I accept God, not through evidence, though I believe there is much evidence out there, but rather through Faith.

Best,

Pat

[melanie]

Hi Melanie;

While it may appear that I try to prove God's existence I don't. I accept God, not through evidence, though I believe there is much evidence out there, but rather through Faith.

Best,

Pat

Hi Pat.

The evidence for me is 'Self' evident.
I agree with you in that the clues are everywhere in nature.
I personally SEE God everywhere, in people, animals, plants, trees, in every aspect of nature.
To me everything is god... also i know god, i don't have to believe in god because i know god.

Human can feel moments of blissful elation through their senses, listening to music,
listening to the birds chirping early in the morning etc looking at art, sunrises sunsets,
listening to the wind and rain.
Tasting beautiful foods.
So i see, hear, taste, and feel god...God is THere...Always NOW

Even extreme sadness is usually rounded off with a familiar kind of comforting knowing that all is well.

The Self is all there is, animal- plant or human mind-body organism is the tool, that Self uses to express It-Self.
Each and every form is an integral unique aspect of the One Self.

Everything is constantly replacing Itself ... who am i to care how long i live, i am here now, i see gods beauty, that's enough for me.
I know that beauty is here forever.
My eye that sees this miracle .. i know it's not my eye, it is gods eye that sees all through it's own creation.

Life never ceases to amaze me Pat.
People too, each their own unique expression of creative energy.
And how is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change,
why is the universe so orderly, so reliable.
It's so beautiful and perfect, even imperfection is still perfect.


Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said,

"Why nature is mathematical is a mystery. The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."

[melanie]

As for science, it too, is reaching the absolute fundamental,
but in a way not recognizable to religion's 'God'.

I agree Austin.

The ''Religions God'' is a pseudo God made up by the mind of imagination.

The ''Real'' God does not exist .. except in this conception..

[dipayankar]

Hi Austin, somehow you do not come across as the atheist type..

The God that can be defined is not God.

Prof, an undefined God has no definition. You are only telling what God isn't, plus that only says you know nothing about the Guy. Remember some stuff in the ideas thread?

I will be proving that the regular God Theity cannot exist. The Church of Profpat has only one member—you. We can get to that one later on. In fact, it might even get covered earlier, as the God's goodness or loving qualities, let's say, will be irrelevant since the God can't exist anyway.

[melanie]

I search for truth, wherever it leads.
If it leads to God, I would open my arms to Him.

In the dream of separation the pseudo entity seeks itself.
Awakening to the dream is realizing the seeker is the same one self that seeks itself.
Thus realizing no-thing exists,except in this conception = end of searching.
God is an idea arising in your consciousness...A concept cannot be any-thing, yet arises as all ''things'' including the concept ''God''

I will focus only on disproving the common bulk of the belief of most of the entire world of what the Theity is, among some of which definitions are:

1) God has mind.

God is a concept arising in the mind not separate from...God therefore IS mind.

2) God is involved in every happening, every interaction.
Nothing goes on all by itself without God.

Doing is done -no doer thereof.

Did my babyhood happen? ..Yes & No
It is NOW a memory, where are our memories? IN Consciousness.
Nothing ever happened.

3) God is everywhere.

THIS ... arises as every-thing and no-thing.

IS every-where and no-where.

(So, ‘anywhere’ of this everywhere is where we may might look.)

'We' don't look....
'We' are the looked upon.....The SEEN

Why don't 'we' look, because we don't exist independently.
Just like dreaming ... Consciousness sees images in Consciousness.

In our nightly dreams, 'who' is looking at the images?

4) We are God’s special creation.

Creation is it's own no concept in mind creation.

5) God listens to our thoughts.

Conscience.

6) God operates from a supernatural dimension.

Another conceptual idea arising in our consciousness not separate from.

(I may even go on to disprove any supernatural or nonmaterial effects from anything anywhere.

Can't be discounted, if it is imaged,or personally experienced as appearance, then can't be disproved.

Anyone want to contribute more on what a Theity is known to be by common 'knowledge'?

A theist is someone who believes in the existence of god or gods esp, belief in one god.

I say any ''Belief'' becomes a lie ..(an echo) ..echoes don't count.
To believe implies twoness.
Why believe in something that is already there, it is already there .. is it not.. no need to say ''I believe'' .. it is there.
There is no 'I'

(next time: some more preliminaries about what a belief really is, but not yet will this be the scientific disproof of God.)

By science you mean those objects made of little men and women in white coats.
Already known ''things'' in consciousness.
Objects of ''MY'' Imagination.

Nothing to prove or disprove.....

[labelwench]

Caramel's ears rotated forward as the familiar silhouette of her mistress approached. Not being the time of day for a meal or ride, she anticipated a question, and she was not disappointed.

"Caramel, do horses have spirit?", the woman asked.

"You don't mean frisky early morning capering about, I take it?", joked the mare. "Yes, Mistress, horses have spirit. We are all one with the herd. We are all one with all things, although I'd rather the biting and buzzing insects would populate elsewhere", replied the mare.

This answer rather surprised the woman and she ventured to continue. "Then have you a religion? Have you a God? Where do horses come from?"

The mare cocked her head slightly and regarded her friend. "So many questions, Missie, it is no wonder that your spirit remains restless and unbridled."

"You are a horse breeder. You know that horses arrive in the usual manner of all mammals, from the same source as humans. All know the source, yet none may define it. That is the purpose of the journey. Do not seek such knowledge prematurely.

As for religion and God, such thoughts have nothing to do with spirit, from the understanding of horse. These questions are arising from the forum, are they not?"

The mare glanced around at the marvellous weather of early May, then turned back to the woman.

"My advice, Missie, though you ask it not, is that you should ride this one out on LSD." The horse turned her body to better catch the morning sun, and shifted her weight to rest her left hind leg. Question and Answer period was concluded for this day.

(Endurance riders acronym for Long Slow Distance conditioning for horse and rider.)

[melanie]

All my posts have good meat, whatever the topic.

Yes i agree, your posts are quite meaty Austin.
Better not say that on MJA's thread..

I like to think you are the meat in the meal, while i am the proof is in the pudding...

But who will want to be the veg? ((smile))

Lets make a meal out of it ... tastes good to me

IT'S ALL ( ONE TASTE) anyway.

Cheers Austin.

PS....if we don't like the heat, we can always get out of the kitchen

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi Prof,

diatribe

Nope, wrong again, not a tirade, harangue, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, or a condemnation, but a regular normal scientific analysis of the hypothesis of God.


as a result of blind chance or necessity.

We may visit the ID God as a sideline to clear up this misconception of the Creationist’s shady approaches like this.


you have Dumbkins.

Who’s that dumb guy?


attack a person's faith

I only search for truth.


So go ahead prove to me that God isn't good or loving

OK, if you wish, I’ll do a short sideline on that aspect.


knows you CAN"T disprove God,

Yes, it was thought that until recently.


only you and Hoyle believe in an eternal universe.

Not me, for indeed the universe was created when you say. Only the potential whence it came was eternal.


Though something or someone must be eternal to create our awesome universe.

True, a something.


Hi Mel,

Which alternative best fits the evidence?

I can do a sideline on the probability analysis to evaluate if God and not God is on an even footing. Note: it is far from 50-50.


people, animals, plants, trees, in every aspect of nature.

Yes, nature is nature.


I agree Austin. The ''Religions God'' is a pseudo God made up by the mind of imagination.

Yes, and that is another kind of great proof that we have also much examined and concluded, but mine will be the scientific evidence of no God.


Hi Dip,

Hi Austin, somehow you do not come across as the atheist type.

I like to write of magical happenings, but I know that they are made up and just stories. Also I enjoy life a lot.


Hello Caramel horse,

“Hey, lately I am talking to horses! Anyway, Caramel, the only mammals that have religion are the humans.”

[Graybeard]

FYI: Most reputable scientist believe the Universe was Created around 14 - 15 billion years ago. Sorry Austin only you and Hoyle believe in an eternal universe.

Most Scientists accept that it was 14 billion years ago that the BB inflation occurred, the universe may be much older, even eternal

greg

[melanie]

I agree Austin. The ''Religions God'' is a pseudo God made up by the mind of imagination.

Yes, and that is another kind of great proof that we have also much examined and concluded,

but mine will be the scientific evidence of no God.

Scientific evidence of no god, how possible, when reality is conceptual.
THIS conception is here, ever unchanged.

THIS or if we want to label the THIS god

then THIS god is the one who is doing the scientific evidence of no god

each idea being none other than a concept

so here we have a concept trying to disprove the existence of a concept

still equals zero which ever way you look at it.

There is nothing outside of this conception.

would be like trying to pin an ''idea/thought'' to a wall and own it

Do you see the scientists playing a role

Or do you see the role I AM playing?

How do you see it Austin?

Also if you say science will disprove god, then why haven't they done it by now?