Science 'versus' God?

[melanie]

ThE awareness that IS readING this post ...
IS THE ONLY REAL REALITY
THIS REALITY RESPONDS TO STIMULI
REALITY ... IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF SENSATIONS LIGHTS & SOUNDS

THIS post is a BELIEF story of written words/ideas/concepts a repeated regurgitated set of beliefs.

THIS ...''all this'' is a belief structure .. nothing more than that.

'Belief'... is as much a phantom as the person apparently holding it.

'It' does not even know of its own existence....proof of this statement for example would be a baby.
From it's embryonic state up until 2 years old..It is completely oblivious of it's own existence...
Something happens..around the age of 2 ..
it becomes another link in the chain of existing belief structures,
attaching itself thus keeping IT ALIVE...


This whole earthly 'play of life' is a belief structure living & feeding off it's own corpse.

While awareness looks on in detachment ...

In a nutshell THE NATURAL WORLD ..IS natural.

-- BELIEFS are manmade(artificial)

''CHOICES'' ...DON'T GIVE THAT TO THE MACHINES

FREE WILL ...a gift from HER (GRACE)... SHE IS LOVE.



The conception is WHOLY complete...it is herenow nowhere.

No need to ADD to it's already perfect completeness.


However, all apparent ADD ON'S are also A part of this conception.

ADD ON'S .. can be described AS a never-ending pile of post-it's (superimposed upon each other)
OR... water color paints painting pictures on a river.

[austintorn@aol.com]

In a nutshell THE NATURAL WORLD

The we are the nuts.

[Mikal]

Hi Austie…this is my response to your SUMMARY OF THE DISPROOFS OF GOD.

Where shall we find the supernatural of God…it would be in the intelligence of your cell in your organic body whereby this cell being the micro-cosmic counterpart of your macro-cosmic soul-body…your aura or field.

Belief in the unknown would be for me to read an esoteric writing, feel inspired by it and then believe it. TO KNOW the unknown is experiential in nature, it is to experience yourself as aware in the spiritual state, it is to be aware you are containing Metaphysical Energy, and this becomes the truth of your own experience of living your life. There is quite a distinction between belief and knowing!

The Eternal Uncaused Mover strongly implies a MIND, may I remind you that the objective Universe and all its forms are clearly driven by Intelligence which necessitates the pre-existence of consciousness

Something derives from (a) primal origin and (b) a direct relationship between genetic inheritance and light. You are the something which came from the all knowledge and functionary capacity within Nature called “Nothing.”

Mass, matter and energy?? There are 7 elements in line with nature. The first 2 are meta-physical and comprise matter in its respective dormant and germinal essence. The ancients called this state “pre-genetic” comprised of unmanifest points of life capable of being projected into a field of Creation.

No initial design built into the Universe?? Why are you Austin a human, whereas a rabbit becomes a rabbit, a carrot a carrot, a rose a rose and not a dandelion, a planetary system and not a planet? Nature very much seems to be guided by intelligence and functions according to principles of interactive Order and Laws which must define a guiding-plan or archetypal blueprints defining its Kingdoms.

Biblical Prophesy is vague because it speaks directly to psycho-spiritual evolution of consciousness and the attainment of “new eyes to see and new ears to hear.”

In the beginning there was no cause??? Your soul is of the nature of atomic and sub-atomic. It holds you’re self-hood; you are not just a physical body.

Quantum consciousness is silliness?? Aether is the 19th century astral light is the modern science Quantum fluid is the sub-stratum of all the earth’s gasses, liquids and minerals is planetary matter held together…is the literal reservoir of life-force. Quantum consciousness is telepathic in transmission.

Enlightenment is to contain the consciousness of Buddha whereas Awakening is to contain Individualized consciousness, your own design or blueprint of self-hood.

The Laws of the Universe are sewn into the fabric of existence, our social laws pale in their reflection. There are laws governing the structure of the Atom itself, Nature didn’t make these laws, it just reveals them and demonstrates them. These laws point to a greater power and mystery at the source of existence whether you are Austin, a movement of the earth, a cycle of seasons, forces within Nature or the forces which lay to waste the highest human enterprise.

Values and Morals?? There is a space inside you and if you take your suffering there, you will find the morality of the Higher Mind and the functions of discriminative reason and ethical perceptions, also the essence of your own character and values. The space you suffer in comes from a Creator.

No fine tuning in the Universe?? I am like a miniature Universe within the Universe, I fine-tuned my functional capacities. It seems to be inherent within the potential for consciousness that with no effort you will see a little and with determined effort you will see a lot more. I figure the goings on in the Universe only a Creator would know and our understanding of that is like the “ring pass not.”

The vile argument from Evil?? We are capable of reaching phenomenally high and subtle levels of perceptual insights the ancients called “Great Knowledge.” We are capable of attaining a high-degree of psycho-spiritual sensitivity. We are the blind leading the blind if we have no true sense of the energies and forces involved. Evil is to associate with these powers through blind dabbling, for foolish excitement while we are filled with ignorance and self-evident lack of self-control. This sense of association to see directly into the inner psycho spiritual workings of Nature entails increasingly severe and subtle tests which force you to discard self-interest painfully and to discard this inclination conditioned in to have power over others and replace that shattered place with a responsibility toward beings held in states of less evolutionary possibilities and potential.
Evil is to be aware in this state of meta-physical energy and forces and to execute its expression as many possible and potential nefarious plans to further the objective of having supreme power over others and even as far as power over the world.

Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Where shall we find the supernatural of God…it would be in the intelligence of your cell in your organic body whereby this cell being the micro-cosmic counterpart of your macro-cosmic soul-body…your aura or field.

That scheme is only the natural, not the super-; some proteins that DNA encoded were sent forth. Soul-body is ‘just saying’.


Belief in the unknown would be for me to read an esoteric writing, feel inspired by it and then believe it. TO KNOW the unknown is experiential in nature, it is to experience yourself as aware in the spiritual state, it is to be aware you are containing Metaphysical Energy, and this becomes the truth of your own experience of living your life. There is quite a distinction between belief and knowing!

Esoteric by ancients are ‘just saying’. Metaphysical Energy is not shown to be so in any way. We know why people feel there are nature spirits.


The Eternal Uncaused Mover strongly implies a MIND, may I remind you that the objective Universe and all its forms are clearly driven by Intelligence which necessitates the pre-existence of consciousness.

The uncaused can have no degisn of a system of mind with prior and lower parts all the more fundamantal. Designs of order always have cause. Only chaos has no order, no definition and no cause. Evolution is not driven by intelligence at all. ‘Just saying’ doesn’t get around this fact.


Something derives from (a) primal origin and (b) a direct relationship between genetic inheritance and light. You are the something which came from the all knowledge and functionary capacity within Nature called “Nothing.”

No genetic inheritance from quantum fluctuations called ‘nothing’. ‘Just saying’ and pronouncing it as such doesn’t cut it.


Mass, matter and energy?? There are 7 elements in line with nature. The first 2 are meta-physical and comprise matter in its respective dormant and germinal essence. The ancients called this state “pre-genetic” comprised of unmanifest points of life capable of being projected into a field of Creation.

No meta-physical is shown, not even by ancients just saying so.


No initial design built into the Universe?? Why are you Austin a human, whereas a rabbit becomes a rabbit, a carrot a carrot, a rose a rose and not a dandelion, a planetary system and not a planet? Nature very much seems to be guided by intelligence and functions according to principles of interactive Order and Laws which must define a guiding-plan or archetypal blueprints defining its Kingdoms.

True, no initial design. Can’t just wish it away. Protons formed stars which then emitted the atomic elements which then formed molecules, cellls, and life which evolved into carrots and rabbits.


Biblical Prophesy is vague because it speaks directly to psycho-spiritual evolution of consciousness and the attainment of “new eyes to see and new ears to hear.”

Nope, it was written in plain text for the common man to utilize. Use glasses or a hearing aid.


In the beginning there was no cause??? Your soul is of the nature of atomic and sub-atomic. It holds you’re self-hood; you are not just a physical body.

Yep, no cause for the causeless. No soul seen. Physical is all.


Quantum consciousness is silliness?? Aether is the 19th century astral light is the modern science Quantum fluid is the sub-stratum of all the earth’s gasses, liquids and minerals is planetary matter held together…is the literal reservoir of life-force. Quantum consciousness is telepathic in transmission.

No more aether that the Gods inhale. No quantum fluid of a life-force has been shown. The quantum realm has no hidden variables. Some of its emmisions stay real; others cancel out. All is discrete at the Planck level, even time.


Enlightenment is to contain the consciousness of Buddha whereas Awakening is to contain Individualized consciousness, your own design or blueprint of self-hood.

Whatever humans do to improve their human mind is fine.


The Laws of the Universe are sewn into the fabric of existence, our social laws pale in their reflection. There are laws governing the structure of the Atom itself, Nature didn’t make these laws, it just reveals them and demonstrates them. These laws point to a greater power and mystery at the source of existence whether you are Austin, a movement of the earth, a cycle of seasons, forces within Nature or the forces which lay to waste the highest human enterprise.

The natural laws are natural, as shown in that essay. Nothing ‘points’ anywhere else but that.. The acts of nature lay waste, not the acts of God.


Values and Morals?? There is a space inside you and if you take your suffering there, you will find the morality of the Higher Mind and the functions of discriminative reason and ethical perceptions, also the essence of your own character and values. The space you suffer in comes from a Creator.

You were going good until you threw in ‘Creator’ out of nowhere. Brain is the space inside us. No invisible attachments are seen.


No fine tuning in the Universe?? I am like a miniature Universe within the Universe, I fine-tuned my functional capacities. It seems to be inherent within the potential for consciousness that with no effort you will see a little and with determined effort you will see a lot more. I figure the goings on in the Universe only a Creator would know and our understanding of that is like the “ring pass not.”

Yes, people can grow. No need to ‘figure’ a Creator. No ring.


The vile argument from Evil?? We are capable of reaching phenomenally high and subtle levels of perceptual insights the ancients called “Great Knowledge.” We are capable of attaining a high-degree of psycho-spiritual sensitivity. We are the blind leading the blind if we have no true sense of the energies and forces involved. Evil is to associate with these powers through blind dabbling, for foolish excitement while we are filled with ignorance and self-evident lack of self-control. This sense of association to see directly into the inner psycho spiritual workings of Nature entails increasingly severe and subtle tests which force you to discard self-interest painfully and to discard this inclination conditioned in to have power over others and replace that shattered place with a responsibility toward beings held in states of less evolutionary possibilities and potential.

Science, not myth, reveals the true sense of the energies and forces involved. ‘Psycho-spiritual’ is psycho-babble.


Evil is to be aware in this state of meta-physical energy and forces and to execute its expression as many possible and potential nefarious plans to further the objective of having supreme power over others and even as far as power over the world.

Those darn nefarious humans! Look to the past of our need for survival to know where these tendencies come from.

[austintorn@aol.com]

What is the Uncaused Mover
That Was Around Forever?

Could a Mind, such as we see in humans, have been around forever? No, of course not, for it is an already defined and very complex composite system.

Ok, then, how about the fully formed cells and molecules of which the brain is made? No, still ordered and complex.
What about an atom or even its smaller constituents of? No, not even, for these parts, as small as they are, have a complete definition of particular properties. These parts have a specific order: a size, spin, energy, etc., and a timely ‘when’, a specific ‘where’, and even how many. If they had been ‘forever’, then there could have been no first place for them to have been so particularly and specifically defined; therefore, the realm of the causeless must be one of no definition at all—none whatsoever—an utter and complete shambles of disorder, called merely ‘potential’ or ‘possibility’—that is, a lawless, ‘anything goes’ realm that precedes real form and its movement and laws, and perhaps even time. Such, indeed, is what we see of the virtual particles arbitrarily arising from the quantum domain, as also in geiger counters randomly beeping, all indeterminate and random happenings of disorder.

So, while order always needs cause beneath it, disorder does not. In fact, an ultimate composite complexity such as mind, not to mention an infinite mind, falls way at the other end of the spectrum; for now, our brains are the most!

All springs from the uncaused disorder,
Vibrating forth these particulate songs of reality,
For which all complex composites then form.

The Cause, Just Because

Some theists say: By all appearances, life’s chemistry looks like the product of a Creator. A nontheist might respond: Life is but a tiny spec compared to that of the Creator’s. By all appearances, then, to be consistent in demanding cause, God’s much higher life all the more looks like the product of a another, Much Higher Creator. But, no, it might then be said by the theist, some Lives need no cause. OK, fine, thus the infinitely simpler life of the universe needs no cause, then, all the more.

So, we see that these kinds of mere ‘pronouncements’ attempt to halt all further inquiry—such as ‘God did it’ indeed may do so for theists; whereas, in science inquiry is ever welcome in the search for answers beyond ‘case closed’ just because.

[Mikal]

Where shall we find the supernatural of God…it would be in the intelligence of your cell in your organic body whereby this cell being the micro-cosmic counterpart of your macro-cosmic soul-body…your aura or field.

That scheme is only the natural, not the super-; some proteins that DNA encoded were sent forth. Soul-body is ‘just saying’.


Belief in the unknown would be for me to read an esoteric writing, feel inspired by it and then believe it. TO KNOW the unknown is experiential in nature, it is to experience yourself as aware in the spiritual state, it is to be aware you are containing Metaphysical Energy, and this becomes the truth of your own experience of living your life. There is quite a distinction between belief and knowing!

Esoteric by ancients are ‘just saying’. Metaphysical Energy is not shown to be so in any way. We know why people feel there are nature spirits.


The Eternal Uncaused Mover strongly implies a MIND, may I remind you that the objective Universe and all its forms are clearly driven by Intelligence which necessitates the pre-existence of consciousness.

The uncaused can have no degisn of a system of mind with prior and lower parts all the more fundamantal. Designs of order always have cause. Only chaos has no order, no definition and no cause. Evolution is not driven by intelligence at all. ‘Just saying’ doesn’t get around this fact.


Something derives from (a) primal origin and (b) a direct relationship between genetic inheritance and light. You are the something which came from the all knowledge and functionary capacity within Nature called “Nothing.”

No genetic inheritance from quantum fluctuations called ‘nothing’. ‘Just saying’ and pronouncing it as such doesn’t cut it.


Mass, matter and energy?? There are 7 elements in line with nature. The first 2 are meta-physical and comprise matter in its respective dormant and germinal essence. The ancients called this state “pre-genetic” comprised of unmanifest points of life capable of being projected into a field of Creation.

No meta-physical is shown, not even by ancients just saying so.


No initial design built into the Universe?? Why are you Austin a human, whereas a rabbit becomes a rabbit, a carrot a carrot, a rose a rose and not a dandelion, a planetary system and not a planet? Nature very much seems to be guided by intelligence and functions according to principles of interactive Order and Laws which must define a guiding-plan or archetypal blueprints defining its Kingdoms.

True, no initial design. Can’t just wish it away. Protons formed stars which then emitted the atomic elements which then formed molecules, cellls, and life which evolved into carrots and rabbits.


Biblical Prophesy is vague because it speaks directly to psycho-spiritual evolution of consciousness and the attainment of “new eyes to see and new ears to hear.”

Nope, it was written in plain text for the common man to utilize. Use glasses or a hearing aid.


In the beginning there was no cause??? Your soul is of the nature of atomic and sub-atomic. It holds you’re self-hood; you are not just a physical body.

Yep, no cause for the causeless. No soul seen. Physical is all.


Quantum consciousness is silliness?? Aether is the 19th century astral light is the modern science Quantum fluid is the sub-stratum of all the earth’s gasses, liquids and minerals is planetary matter held together…is the literal reservoir of life-force. Quantum consciousness is telepathic in transmission.

No more aether that the Gods inhale. No quantum fluid of a life-force has been shown. The quantum realm has no hidden variables. Some of its emmisions stay real; others cancel out. All is discrete at the Planck level, even time.


Enlightenment is to contain the consciousness of Buddha whereas Awakening is to contain Individualized consciousness, your own design or blueprint of self-hood.

Whatever humans do to improve their human mind is fine.


The Laws of the Universe are sewn into the fabric of existence, our social laws pale in their reflection. There are laws governing the structure of the Atom itself, Nature didn’t make these laws, it just reveals them and demonstrates them. These laws point to a greater power and mystery at the source of existence whether you are Austin, a movement of the earth, a cycle of seasons, forces within Nature or the forces which lay to waste the highest human enterprise.

The natural laws are natural, as shown in that essay. Nothing ‘points’ anywhere else but that.. The acts of nature lay waste, not the acts of God.


Values and Morals?? There is a space inside you and if you take your suffering there, you will find the morality of the Higher Mind and the functions of discriminative reason and ethical perceptions, also the essence of your own character and values. The space you suffer in comes from a Creator.

You were going good until you threw in ‘Creator’ out of nowhere. Brain is the space inside us. No invisible attachments are seen.


No fine tuning in the Universe?? I am like a miniature Universe within the Universe, I fine-tuned my functional capacities. It seems to be inherent within the potential for consciousness that with no effort you will see a little and with determined effort you will see a lot more. I figure the goings on in the Universe only a Creator would know and our understanding of that is like the “ring pass not.”

Yes, people can grow. No need to ‘figure’ a Creator. No ring.


The vile argument from Evil?? We are capable of reaching phenomenally high and subtle levels of perceptual insights the ancients called “Great Knowledge.” We are capable of attaining a high-degree of psycho-spiritual sensitivity. We are the blind leading the blind if we have no true sense of the energies and forces involved. Evil is to associate with these powers through blind dabbling, for foolish excitement while we are filled with ignorance and self-evident lack of self-control. This sense of association to see directly into the inner psycho spiritual workings of Nature entails increasingly severe and subtle tests which force you to discard self-interest painfully and to discard this inclination conditioned in to have power over others and replace that shattered place with a responsibility toward beings held in states of less evolutionary possibilities and potential.

Science, not myth, reveals the true sense of the energies and forces involved. ‘Psycho-spiritual’ is psycho-babble.


Evil is to be aware in this state of meta-physical energy and forces and to execute its expression as many possible and potential nefarious plans to further the objective of having supreme power over others and even as far as power over the world.

Those darn nefarious humans! Look to the past of our need for survival to know where these tendencies come from.

I think that I'll just let my post stand for anybody studying Plasma Physics or other disciplines of thought in that area.

Here is an interesting quote for you....
Transmutation begins at conception: An invisible electro-magnetic signal emerges as a torus-shaped field out of the embryonic protoplasm. This signal, which radiates and returns in waves, is the embryo's signature pattern and forms the basis for its self-recognition system of immunity...During the first two weeks following conception, the embryo is amorphous protoplasm. It possesses no structures, but is a clear-as-glass liquid crystal matrix...

So now, enfolded within its signal, is a holographic, electromagnetic polar field that combines levity with gravity to fire the fields with unerring intelligence...Primary respiration is the intelligence that generates enough potency to ignite intentional whirls and eddies in the embryonic fluids that will, in nine months, develop into a fully formed human being.

(Bletchschmidt defines developmental movements as submicroscopic metabolic movements that manifest as a kinetically independent development of position, form or shape and of inner structure of organs)

For example when two cells, a sperm and an egg cell unite to create a human being comprised of fifty trillion cells that function coherently as one unit, we are witnessing the transmutative power of Embryogenesis.

Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

I think that I'll just let my post stand

The invisible will hold it up.

So, I take it that God produces the invisible E/M field for Embryogenesis…

The Amazing and Unexpected SuperToe Result from Disproving God

We have found the glorious understanding that what gave rise to the universe must itself have been eternal and causeless—it being a chaotic and totally undefined state, for there was never a time of its birth—it necessarily going back forever—at which it could have been given any definition.

So, then, there is no more regress of infinite causes that could never be; nor any more thoughts of all coming from a Nothing of which not anything could become. The buck has stopped here and we have cashed it in. It is the currency of the quantum fluctuations, these being a near ‘nothing’, but not a total Nothing, and that is what made all the difference in the world and the universe.

— Mind/Consciousness is Heaven —

Mind is the ultimate of all there is
It is the universe—billions of years
Of primordial material—complex.
So, what more could human beings want?

Of Cause the First

Whatever is eternal and is so well defined
Could never be as so, for it was never defined
In the first place, for that there never was
To define all that it forever did and does.

[Mikal]

the particles you study in science are invisible to the naked eye...so I guess science really leans on the invisible too...its just that you justify one and not the other...
God will never be disproved because we quite frankly do not know what "God" is....whatever it may be...it is surely not the amthropormorphized God of humans in the past....


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

3 photons are visible to the naked eye, but the infinitely sized God is invisible.

[Mikal]

Here's a good quote for you...

Your body-mind is inertial patterns embedded in layers of bones, membranes, muscles, connective tissues, organs, fluids, meridians and chakras...etc..It is a "liquid ground substance" which is the matrix through which life communicates with your body.

Maybe you should study Segmental Neuropathy...

You might begin to sense the complexity and miracle of creation and life.


Mikal