Science 'versus' God?

[labelwench]

Certainly, human nature is fixed, but its behavior isn’t, for it is sensitive to the environment, being endlessly variable and diverse. Change the environment for the good and behavior will then improve. Their is no need to fiddle with genes. The fixed rules of human nature can give rise to an inhaustible range of outcomes. To know what changes to the environment would be appropriate and effective, you have to know the Darwinian rules. We only need to understand human nature, not to change it. originally posted by austintorn.

Human nature is a product of genotype and phenotype. We are learning now that the environment during the in utero phase and birthing may even be of influence, so perhaps phenotype should have been noted before genotype.

People have differing frameworks for ethical and emotional bias. Some are genetic, some are learned and some may be acquired.

It is frightening beyond description, to look into the eyes of another human being, and see no species recognition therein.

This state can be caused by substance abuse, trauma or injury, psychological profiling (special forces), or genetics, to name a few.

While we may not need to "fiddle with the genes", we certainly need to understand their function, and I agree that a whole lot more nurturing should greatly improve the situation.

Labelwench

[labelwench]

Our CBC television Canada Day presentation is right now showing a pair of Goth youth performing Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.

The young lady is wardrobed in a black full length turn of the century period dress, and the gentleman dancer is doing an interpretation of the words, both of them concluding at the microphone.

A black grand piano and the backup band all in black.

A visual and audio treat which brings together the concepts of this thread title, through symbol, metaphor and physical action.

Labelwench

[Mikal]

Austin…the correct term for “nefarious planners” is social engineers who are those fully endowed with the ability to manipulate the social forces which determine society.

How do you demean humanity for the objective to destroy the family based society we had and turn it into a Therapeutic Society?? I will give you one example which is going on right now as I speak.

We have in our society the presence of “young troubled families,” they are marked by the term “children having children” and young, immature families trapped in modern day states of poverty. These families were created by covert interference into the educational system for instance mandatory sex education which does not motivate abstinence while young but does promote being sexually active through the protection of condoms. Sex education on the surface looks like responsibility for the young but on deeper levels it links into the knowledge that young teens are passing through the process of natural hormonal activity as their body matures. It is not about modeling responsibility, it is about peaking the young teens into interest about sexual experience. Programs that deal with pregnant teens are set up for the attending teacher, on the basis “number of teens pregnant” determines if program will run next semester and if teacher will teach. (While a teen councilor, I actually witnessed these teachers approaching different councilors and asking if they could forget to distribute condoms because they needed 10 more pregnant girls to ensure their teaching position in the next semester. I actually observed these teaching centers and witnessed parties held to reward the girls for having babies. On the surface it looks like empowering self-esteem but on deeper levels it is sheer encouragement for more girls to have a 2nd baby. It links into their need for young attention and fulfills the teacher’s need to secure her teaching position.)

Let’s see what other covert interference created these young troubled families? There was the creation of “student welfare” and the creation of children’s rights legislation in 1973. On the surface this looks like modeling responsibility for children but on deeper levels it is linking into the natural stage of adolescent rebellion which is a normal stage of young development and these acts were not enacted for anything other than the creation of an open doorway to interfere into families rights over their own children and to let children know they can turn against their family, so it links into the stage of adolescent rebellion and uses it for nefarious purposes. (I actually sat in the cafeteria, just a small distance from a group of about 12 teens plotting the false accusation of abuse against a parent in order to approach student welfare and secure in their words…a pad to party in.)

So what are these created “young troubled families” all about? Well they ensured the structuring of a huge Justice System, busy courts and the daily bread for judges, lawyers, court employees and the creation of outer social institutions which would function in coordination through subtle links. Those institutions are CAS and other pertinent institutions psychological and psychiatric in nature. They are simply Utopian Theorists who were determined to destroy the meaning of family and in the void replace the thought that family is no more than a structure that is oppressive, twisted and insane. You see these utopians have never understood how to deal with the messiness of life. (I actually sat in my first College Family Studies Class and heard a University professor deliver to a young, impressionable group of students fresh out of highschool, the message, “The family is no longer sacred.” I was older as was two other students and we quickly critiqued the opening.) Now is that statement, a theory, an ideologue, misinformation or propaganda??

Darwin was just a small step in a structure of many steps that moved us into being A THERAPUETIC SOCIETY.


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Darwin was just a small step in a structure of many steps that moved us into being A THERAPUETIC SOCIETY.

Darwin searched for truth and found it.

So, anyway, how was the location of the 'ethical center' determined? And how was it decided to be beyond the natural?

[michael turner]

Independent thought, which at the basic structure is an arrangment of protons, neutrons, electrons means that the essence of matter formation had life, human life, as a potential program built in.
Interesting question that can not be answered by science only theology.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Yes, we are of the natural potential. Evolution fine-tuned us to the universe.

[michael turner]

Independent thought, which at the basic structure is an arrangment of protons, neutrons, electrons means that the essence of matter formation had life, human life, as a potential program built in.
Interesting question that can not be answered by science only theology.

Austin, you missed the point, And I see you do it intentionally.
Out of limited possibilities of evolution, how is it that with out intellegence, we were chosen

[austintorn@aol.com]

Not missing the point. The potential was there, as you say. You made a good point.

Intelligence was not required for us to become. Evolution was a design without a designer, probably even the same way you would have the design of God become, but then He would just be an alien, not at all fundamental as said.

[michael turner]

Not missing the point. The potential was there, as you say. You made a good point.

Intelligence was not required for us to become. Evolution was a design without a designer, probably even the same way you would have the design of God become, but then He would just be an alien, not at all fundamental as said.

You truly do miss the point, the nature of the building blocks of existance has a beginning and a set pattern that allows the flow of evolution. It is the nature and assembly of the building blocks of existance that lead to evolution. There are not infinate patterns from matter. finite patterns means preprograming of evolution, creating and setting the patterns with matter and energy, as if matter and energy are preprogramed or have will, or both....

But with out infinate possibilities you error in conclusion....

[austintorn@aol.com]

Complexity from simplicity doesn't mean that the universe had us in mind, just that we could be.

The fixed rules of the universe can give rise to an inhaustible range of outcomes. So here we are.

Darn! Here comes a big asteroid! God is trying to 'extinct' us again!