[Wick]

Originally Posted by melanie

Also....
When the LHC reveals this dark matter, all it will see is itself staring right back at it-self.

A very expensive realization imo.

We live in a universe falling through a background of resting light (thats my belief anyway). I call this universe the Present Point. I call it the Present Point because everything that makes this universe is in the here and now and it is formed exclusively of point particles. But if we could see the point particles as they are seen from that dimension through which we are falling, we would see that they are not mere points. There is more to a point particle than meets the eye. The dark matter is there...on the other side of the Present Point...in a place where light and energy are at rest.

The LHC may yet uncover clues about "dark matter", but as long as we confine ourselves to the box Einstein gave us, or the box Bohr gave us, we will misunderstand the things the LHC has to say.

Wick

[dleviwing]

Here is a Youtube like that may amuse you and maybe inspire you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY
Watch all of them if you can.

[leskey]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Here is a Youtube like that may amuse you and maybe inspire you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY
Watch all of them if you can.

Shame on you, Dave .

Fortunately, not all those who support creationism or intelligent design are lacking in scientific discipline or understanding. Not much to admire in an intellectual mis-match with a faceless, supercilious, patronizing narrator...

For anyone contemplating taking up Dave's invitation: unless sadistic humiliation your thing is, your time I would waste not .

[austintorn@aol.com]

My Interviews with the Intelligent Design Gods and Others:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/league...ions#post57223

[dleviwing]

You’re right leskey; not all of them are lacking scientific discipline; they just suspend intelligence long enough to allow them to believe in their delusions of a creator.

The problem with these people, and I assume you’re one of them, is that they insist on their belief being taught in science classes without following the required rules of scientific methodology. Provide evidence of the designer and your beliefs become scientific theory supported by that evidence. Science is a methodology designed to provide knowledge; if you wish to use this methodology then play by the rules; don’t attempt to alter these rules to accommodate you personal beliefs. You people need to stop looking to science to prove the existence of god unless you are willing to accept the results of empirical testing; “NO EVIDENCE OF GOD HAS BEEN FOUND”! This is neither proof of existence or nonexistence.

The actual agenda of these people is to silence the voices of intellect and reason. If we organized activist groups to silence your belief nonsense, you would cry out persecution and suppression of you freedoms. You people are the offenders and the persecutors. You inject your dogma into political systems of governments and thus surprising individual freedoms and rights.

Most religious people are respectful individuals but there are some that are hell bent on saving a world that does not need their form of saving and are willing to suppress or kill anyone who stands in their way.

Who is the one who should be assamed leskey?

[melanie]

We are appearing on this forum not to save the world for who is there to do that?
We are here to discuss the self evident indisputable truth that cannot be either proved nor disproved and that is.........
That there is no separate independent entity that ever existed in reality.
There is just supreme intelligence appearing as itself appearing as life appearing as everything.
Appearing as my fingers typing this post, appearing as the little black squiggly dots appearing on your computer screen for you to read.
Appearing as the consciousness that interprets those black squiggly dots as data read and understood or not, instantaneously one with the knowing.
An Intelligence that goes way beyond anything we can personally muster.
All creation, It is seen and witnessed via consciousness itself.
We as conscious beings are it's only living testimony.

We are consciousness aware-in itself.

The mind then tries to grasp hold of this consciousness as if it was something individually special. A separate entity.
It is not, so any attempt to hold on to it, is in vain, it will fail.
It would be like trying to grasp at thin air.
We have to let go and free fall through the mystery of not knowing.
Not knowing takes itself where it needs to go as and when there is the desire to do so in this limitless mysterious voyage of natures own discovering.
Each and every discovery is sensed imaged and known instantly one with the knowing.
An Intelligence always under construction.
The bigger picture has no frame.

Only the little pictures appearing inside the big picture have frames, but these are imaginary frames, frames of reference made up by the dreamed characters.
They are only ever Dreams within Dreams.
How does one possibly locate a rainbow? see what i mean?
Both dreamer and the dreamed character are one and the same.

NOW HERE .. EVERY WHERE .. AND .. NO WHERE.
All very strange and mysterious indeed.
And the dreaming continues as it usually does in it's own desire to do so.


We cannot see / know the origin of this universe no more that we can see/ know our own face.
The truth does not want to be known it is the already knowing.
It is seen.Creation is seen.
But just as we can look in the mirror at ourself and see our own face, we then ''know'' our face is there.
It then becomes a known. The unknown knowing becomes a known. '' Self Awareness ''
So this reality must already be the already unknown knowing known, known one with the knowing, known by no-one.
strange or as paradoxical as that may sound, that is in itself self evident.
any attempt by 'us' to know more or beyond that what is immediately known or seen in this instant,
would be futile because that would imply two, where there is only one.



“There's nothing that can help you understand your beliefs more than trying to explain them to an inquisitive child.”
Frank A. Clark

[Mikal]

Is this thread called "Science versus God"....???? Gee might there be a reason for discussion and debate of the type now going on??? Is there a way to debate without insult, intimidation and even anger and posts that seem to YELL????????? If you cannot debate this issue in this thread where can you??????


Mikal

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Here is a Youtube like that may amuse you and maybe inspire you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY
Watch all of them if you can.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6195639404227668247&hl=en

http://www.scienceprovescreation.com/theory1-1.aspx

http://www.scienceprovescreation.com...0&topicID=1028

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

You’re right leskey; not all of them are lacking scientific discipline; they just suspend intelligence long enough to allow them to believe in their delusions of a creator.

The problem with these people, and I assume you’re one of them, is that they insist on their belief being taught in science classes without following the required rules of scientific methodology. Provide evidence of the designer and your beliefs become scientific theory supported by that evidence. Science is a methodology designed to provide knowledge; if you wish to use this methodology then play by the rules; don’t attempt to alter these rules to accommodate you personal beliefs. You people need to stop looking to science to prove the existence of god unless you are willing to accept the results of empirical testing; “NO EVIDENCE OF GOD HAS BEEN FOUND”! This is neither proof of existence or nonexistence.

The actual agenda of these people is to silence the voices of intellect and reason. If we organized activist groups to silence your belief nonsense, you would cry out persecution and suppression of you freedoms. You people are the offenders and the persecutors. You inject your dogma into political systems of governments and thus surprising individual freedoms and rights.

Most religious people are respectful individuals but there are some that are hell bent on saving a world that does not need their form of saving and are willing to suppress or kill anyone who stands in their way.

Who is the one who should be assamed leskey?

"NO EVIDENCE OF GOD HAS BEEN FOUND",true, but evil IS/becomes self-evident by it's leave Sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F5MqqTQ
The agenda is one you have imosed upon others who simply see things in a different light, from a different referrence point and hear a different frequency. True there are radical fundamentalists in every walk and interest in life.

Scientist are spurred on by their same beliefs, how many deaths, on a massive scale, can be attributed to scientific technological advancements. We all have our share of shame as our cross we will forever will. Much of it not our own fault, just chalk it to the pandemic of ignorance throughout the ages, until the dawn of something new inspires mankind to stop killing and start loving on a global scale.

http://www.lightstreamers.com/bielek.htm

Namaste` Dave
Drifter

[leskey]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

You’re right leskey; not all of them are lacking scientific discipline; they just suspend intelligence long enough to allow them to believe in their delusions of a creator.

The problem with these people, and I assume you’re one of them, is that they insist on their belief being taught in science classes without following the required rules of scientific methodology. Provide evidence of the designer and your beliefs become scientific theory supported by that evidence. Science is a methodology designed to provide knowledge; if you wish to use this methodology then play by the rules; don’t attempt to alter these rules to accommodate you personal beliefs. You people need to stop looking to science to prove the existence of god unless you are willing to accept the results of empirical testing; “NO EVIDENCE OF GOD HAS BEEN FOUND”! This is neither proof of existence or nonexistence.

The actual agenda of these people is to silence the voices of intellect and reason. If we organized activist groups to silence your belief nonsense, you would cry out persecution and suppression of you freedoms. You people are the offenders and the persecutors. You inject your dogma into political systems of governments and thus surprising (suppressing?) individual freedoms and rights.

Most religious people are respectful individuals but there are some that are hell bent on saving a world that does not need their form of saving and are willing to suppress or kill anyone who stands in their way.

Who is the one who should be assamed (ashamed?) leskey?

Try not to assume, Dave .

On a personal level, I have much to be ashamed of, but not of what you're accusing. Also, I don't need the proof of empirical testing. I just want science to be inclusive, open and honest enough to acknowledge "God" if/when, even to science, his existence can no longer be denied...