[Profpat]

Hi MJA;

I believe they refer to that as procreation. Real creation is the old something from nothing trick.
You and I were procreated from an egg and a sperm.

Best to you,

Pat

[MJA]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi MJA; I believe they refer to that as procreation. Real creation is the old something from nothing trick. You and I were procreated from an egg and a sperm. Best to you, Pat

Oh, well, I don't know anything about something from nothing,
is their such a thing?
What is nothing?
How can nothing create something?
Can nobody help somebody with nothing?
Is nothing something?
Is something nothing?
This is going nowhere,
and have decided to go somewhere else.
Bye.

=
MJA

PS: Send help!!!

[Profpat]

MJA

PS: Send help!!![/quote]

Time for you to climb that mountain to Tahoe my friend, or off to Massachusetts to Walden Pond.

Best to you MJA,

Pat

[ThirdWorld]

I would prefer to follow comparative accounts that collaborate accounts, outside the bibilical texts, in order to form any relevant opinions.

***Why, is it because the bible contradicts what you want to believe? It certainly could not be because you think the bible to be an unimportant or unreliable source of historical information.

There is no known exodus other than the Hyksos' and egyptologists move back and forth through the centuries like there is no tomorrow.

*** Well surely if you choose to ignore the historical account of the people who underwent the exodus it will not be surprising that you cannot find an account of it.

There is no known exodus save of the hyksos to those who wish to cleanse history of the exodus of the jews from egypt.

I hold no brief for the jews per se but as the records have it it was Joseph who brought the Pharaohs' office to real prominence by selling grain and buying up the land, taxing the egyptian cityizens etc to increase the wealth of the pharaoh of his day.

A clear indication could be seen of the after mart of this activity by Joseph in that from the record of the pharaohs it seems that that prosperity caused them to start having both the pharaoh and his wife sit as king and queen at the same time: two of the pharaohs after the time of drought in egypt sat with their wives as rulers and this seems to be a first for such practice.

Concerning the exodus there is a change of dynasty after the demise of ramasses II and that's because he was the one who was destroyed in the red sea after pursuing the children of israel.

I get most of my information from this scientist I have followed for years - http://www.atlan.org/articles/sci.html - who places the flood back to the only point in history where collaborative accounts mesh a global cataclym and works from there - which is "pleistocene end" 10,500 B.C. approx.. It changes alot of factors.

*** Friend, that record you are referring to could not be a reliable source of information: the speculations of a philosopher Plato could hardly be construed as hardcore science and he certainly is not writing history either because he is not taking his story from those closest in time and place to the scene of the events.

The record of Noah, the main man of only eight human survivors of the global flood, is written in the bible and can be collaborated with other accounts: you can read the epic of gilgamesh [called nimrod in the bible] the king of uruk who evidently lived after the flood and who also wrote an independent report of the flood as he got it from Noah himself [called Utanaphisthim in the epic].

There were no humans living 10,500 years ago from all HISTORICAL accounts: the records the anthropologists conjure up from fossils could be at best cases of mistaken identity: if their radiometric dating methods are accurate (and I know too much about the science of matter and the integrity or lack thereof of some so called scientists to accept all that is printed in black and white as gospel truth) then those skulls etc that they are calling neanderthal man etc could be nothing more than the skulls of our predecessors the apes and monkeys.

So check the written records first: those of gilgamesh at least if you don't want to believe the bible and see that the flood occurred some 2000 years BC and not 10,500 as you are inclined to think.

The city of atlantist may be where it is if it is a mythical city but the garden of Eden was where the Persian gulf now is.

Roger

[ThirdWorld]

Quote] Why is it that the primary questions remain unanswered?[/quote]


Is there a God?

*** Yes

What is God?

*** An eternal being comprising Intelligence [Omniscience], Energy [Omnipotence], and Life/ consciousness [Omnipresence] according to the bible.

What is a being?

*** Being means a state of existence or that which exists.

What is energy?

*** The capacity to do work [even physical work].

What is matter?

*** Energy, Time and Space organized in such a manner as to produce the fundamental [particle] upon which the universe is built. That is to say that the fundamental matter particle is made up of energy, time and space.

My pet name for this particle is the UNOMA others call it a photon [at rest].

What is space?

*** Space is a fundamental reality created by God the Omniscient in my view and so is a concept in the mind of God that tells energy where to exist/ be and where to move.

What is time?

*** Time is the other created fundamental of the physical universe. This phenomenon is also a concept in the Omniscient mind of God and it tells energy [which exists as particles of zero size ie points in space] how fast to move.

Time therefore causes the lack of instantaneity of motion. Without the 'law' that time is movement would be instantaneous and there would be no inertia.

The result of time and space is that Energy [which was not created but is an 'element' of the eternal God himself] does work perpetually by moving with a finite velocity in space.

This is as simple as I can put it but you are smart enough to ask the hard questions you should be also smart enough to understand the answers.

Is all else that we think that we know, based on these things that we can not answer?

*** These are NOT things that we cannot answer.

Roger

[ThirdWorld]

How can nothing create something?

*** Nothing cannot create something but "everything" can create something from nothing.

God is the Everything, the Infinite, who created the finite from nothing.

If you were a mathematician I would have told you that:

infinity x 0 = a finite number

and you would understand.

Roger

[N0B0DY]

"Why, is it because the bible contradicts what you want to believe? It certainly could not be because you think the bible to be an unimportant or unreliable source of historical information."

Not at all, but it is only one, and one that is a compilation of other ancient texts. The point is that the corroborative accounts of every major nation of a global cataclysm referring to 10,500 B.C. should take precedence over one single source that could also be placed at that time if we change our interpretations of biblical texts or refuse to follow what others tell us - primarily the egyptologists who move around dynastic dates like they're timetravellers.

"Friend, that record you are referring to could not be a reliable source of information: the speculations of a philosopher Plato could hardly be construed as hardcore science and he certainly is not writing history either because he is not taking his story from those closest in time and place to the scene of the events."

I hope you didn't close the site solely for your noticing Plato, because you would have missed volumes of hardcore science that for the first time in history gives solid proof of the biblical flood, and accurately places other accounts accordingly. Further, with regards to "those closest in time and place to the scene of events," the correlating "heaven-and-earth" astronomical maps of ancient civilizations point exactly, and only, to the end of the pleistocene era. - http://mars-earth.com/earthpage.htm

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Omniscience is absolutely impossible, whether theologically, of scientifically; yet, a simple TOE is absolutely possible... Neither the universe, nor the mind is omniscinet, as the absolute universe is a complex evolution from simple/complex randomness, to simple/complex randomness and uniformity___as is the mind. Nothing we witness, anywhere in the universe, shows omniscience or omnipotentancy. It's just a simple show of substance in motion, reorganizing itself into different forms___It just is, what it randomly/uniformly is, and always has been... If you don't believe in random/uniformity, or the uniformity of randomness, then try explaining the complex show of "Northern Lights", from Fairbanks, Alaska north___It's amazing, as I've been there, and physicists have an observatory there, and no-one on earth, is yet able to put a proper math to the entire show, but it certainly isn't omniscient or omnipotent___now is it...?

The only omniscience/omnipotentcy possible, is the false, self-delluded, over-abstract ego, of wayward man...

Lloyd

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by ThirdWorld If you were a mathematician I would have told you that: infinity x 0 = a finite number

You could say that.. but you'd be wrong.

[neutralino]

Ok, I should probably qualify my previous comment. Zero multiplied by infinity is an indeterminate form; that is, it can take infinitely many values depending on how you are considering the expression. Thus, the answer could be an integer, or could be infinite (or could be lots of other things). I suppose that you answered in the way you did since you are thinking of the old rule "anything multiplied by zero is equal to zero." However, this only applies to real numbers, of which infinity is not one.