Is it possible to prove the non-existence of God?

[leskey]

The desire for for G, for ID, for magic uncle is understandable. Without it we face annihilation, meaninglessness, a short brutish life signifying nothing with a reproductive cycle leading to same. There is a strong presumption that all this should amount to something a little more meaningful.
Science does not address this problem. The god delusion may create a euphoria but its social consequences are misery. The medicine is worse than the disease.

So are there any REASONABLE suggestions avoiding the hocus pocus of the priests and the madmen, the witch burning and the end of world mass murder on the one hand and giving a little ¨meaning” (we all know what I mean) to this vacuous crass boredom called purposeless existence?
Before I make my modest suggestion I must warn you that it is not the euphoric kind of solution. Euphoria is a natural device to guide the organism in a desired direction. It loses its reason d’etre when pursued for its own sake. (But that’s probably for a different discussion.)
Instead of euphoria I am talking about something akin to power which somehow washes out the problem of meaninglessness. It is the lifting of a thin psychic construct which causes the misery and the euphoria and ultimate emptiness of existence.
It is the ’’I’’ viewed as a separate entity. It is a thin layer that peels away at the first hint of change. It is an effective fiction. (I step on your foot I feel no pain.)

Can’t get rid of it. It makes the world what it is. It will lift though for you too and you will not be alone anymore and become whole. (But it does have its reason for being too. I don’t see eye to eye with the Buddhists on that.)

Fortunately I am a lazy man. However I had to write this because of all that god problem that has been sweeping the US. Tried to put in my bit.

Hi, again, Jim.

Each and every one of us doing our bit, is how we "create" change. It's hope: the tiny flower that blooms on the dung heap of life. If we just sit back and let "evolution" take its course...well, we can't complain - can we?

[leskey]

Polybius is absolutely correct in saying god is nothing more than a human thought or concept. No logic nor test can prove either the physical or spiritual existence of such a being. When someone proclaims that something exists, it is their responsibility to provide the proof of their claim and not the responsibility of others to provide the proof that their hypotheses is wrong. Believing is politics and religion; knowing is science.

Hello, Dave.

You do dazzle me: so much knowledge, so little wisdom.

"I must confess that a man is guilty of unpardonable arrogance who concludes, because an argument has escaped his own investigation, that therefore it does not really exist. I must also confess that, though all the learned, for several ages, should have employed themselves in fruitless search upon any subject, it may still, perhaps, be rash to conclude positively that the subject must, therefore, pass all human comprehension." (David Hume, 1737)

[jim barlow]

Yes there always is a "religion" if you want to call it that. Its requirement however is to fit the intellectual environment of its age. I'm perfectly happy with quantum psyche (whatever it is) but unhappy with a bearded jewish monster who terrorizes its own "creatures". That goes for uncle Allah too.

As for the small complements: again I can live with gods who themselves are put together by small evolutionary steps. I'm quite sure there are quite a few of those.

Thank you for your clarity, leskey

j

[jim barlow]

"Hi, again, Jim.

Each and every one of us doing our bit, is how we "create" change. It's hope: the tiny flower that blooms on the dung heap of life. If we just sit back and let "evolution" take its course...well, we can't complain - can we?"

That hope that we so conscientiously create is the Change, TAO, Evolution, whatever you call it.

It is a most personal thing.

Whether that fish could walk on the sand with its tiny legs was one of the central concerns of its "individuality".

Letting things go their own way is a political concept. Possibly precursor for tribal diffusion. Possibly leading to the emergence of a mutation or even a new specie.

[Mikal]

Hi guys...isn't that a strange statement in the Bible when the serpent says to Eve "God knows that in the day that you eat of it (The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Seems strange until you dismantle all the meanings...The serpent represents.."wisdom, to be wise"...also the energy running up the spine from the base to the top of the brain and then the serpent folds down over the head, above the eyes..representing the prefrontals in the brain system. Eve represents..."the first conscious waking moment" and her mate Adam represents, "the rational mind." The Apple represents..."eating of the fruit of wisdom"...inside the apple is a 5 pointed star representing the 5 physical senses and going beyond to open up higher sensory systems.

"Your eyes will be opened" means to bring clarity of perception. "Knowing good and evil" means I intuitively understand good and evil actions. What is this all about? The use of the wording "in the day" represents..the time when humankind will evolve to develop his and her potential for social consciousness.

[ggullet]

the fact that the question can be asked proves exsistence

[Mikal]

Quite astute perception gg....


Mikal

[melanie]

I suppose mankind wished to have a purpose,

not realizing that no purpose at all gives the ultimate freedom to be,

with no strings attached.

Replace the ............... with your name and the 'he' with a 'she' if and where necessary and you will have your personalized certificate of awakening.

Of course it is only valid if it is recognized that it has no value at all and only applicable to the one who knows that there is no one to whom it could apply.



Certificate of Awakening


It is hereby certified that in (month-year), ............... discovered nothing and realized that he is nobody. He now understands that there is nothing to understand because nobody understands nothing. Consequently, he learned that his search for the truth was a big joke, and that he was the butt of the joke. After his search ended, he discovered that who he thought he was was not who he was, and that who he is, is simply what is. He is now free to enjoy being what he is, even though he doesn’t know what that is. He is free because no matter what he does he will always be doing exactly what he has to be doing, which is what he was already doing before he discovered that that was what he was doing.

............... now knows that every person he meets--including every homeless bum, criminal, alcoholic, drug addict, and otherwise disreputable person—is himself. He therefore must never speak ill of anyone because he will be spreading rumors about himself. In the same way, he can never be proud of anything he does because he is not the one who does anything. Because he now knows that time and space are imaginary, he knows that he is always here and now, wherever that is. Henceforth he will never forget that who he is is beyond name and form and that his past personhood was a product of imagination. Now, he will always treat other people as himself, because he knows that they are himself.

............... now knows the secret of all secrets—that there is no secret. Everything is lying open and in plain sight. He can now relax and have a good laugh at having found something that was never lost.

He is hereby declared to be an official member of the Brotherhood/Sisterhood/Ithood of Sacred Emptiness. Having finally seen the Big Picture, he now knows that all the little pictures are imaginary-- and that the Big Picture is also imaginary. He has discovered that he and God are one and that God has an enormous sense of humor.

He is therefore authorized to talk incessantly about what he has discovered, understanding that when he has finished saying everything he can think of to say, he will have said absolutely nothing to nobody, and nobody will understand what he’s talking about anyway.

Signed by:

...............

President and only member of the Club of Cosmic Consciousness
(He is the only member of the club, because there is only One available to be a member.
Anyone else could be president if there was anyone else, but despite searching high and low, nobody has ever found anyone else.)


.

[Wick]

Our definitions of God may be overly infinite.

Universal Law is greater than God. God did not create the Law. The Law created God.

When one obeys Universal Law, one becomes free within the Law’s framework. When one disobeys, one must bear the natural consequences of disobedience. Universal Law is all Natural Law. We erroneously subdivide Universal Law into natural law and moral law. But in the end, they are the same.

As long as God complies with Universal Law, he remains God, but if God breaks Universal Law, God ceases to be God and becomes something else. Perfect compliance to Law is the path to Godhood.

When a being achieves perfect obedience to Universal Law, he become infinitely powerful, he becomes creative, he becomes all knowing, and even all powerful…BUT ONLY WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE UNIVERSAL LAW. The Law is always prime. Compliance with the universal law is the source of God’s power. To bow before universal law, to humble oneself before it, to give oneself to it, that is where God’s power lies. God is the ultimate disciple of Universal Law.

My point is this…the pathway to Godhood is an evolutionary process. Those who make it (and I’ll use the plural because I believe God is plural and encompasses both genders), make it only after they learn how to comply perfectly with universal law. When they, too become disciples of Universal Law

So let’s jettison the idea that a God is one who does what he pleases, or sees what he pleases, or hears what he pleases or thinks what he pleases. That is not true. God does what the law requires God to do, sees what the law requires God to see, hears what the law requires God to hear, thinks what the law requires God to think.

Freedom is not that thing that arises when any law can be broken. That is a lie.

Perfect freedom is achieved when the Law is obeyed perfectly. Take a simple metaphor—a dancer on the stage. There are certain laws that governs a dancer’s performance—the law of the dance. As she obeys those laws and learns to express herself within the framework of the law the dance requires, she becomes beautiful and fascinating to those who watch her. We learn to feel her expressions. We are amazed at her grace, her discipline, the power of her expression within the framework of her natural constraints. She becomes perfectly free in her expression, because she has mastered the law of the dance.

Were a non-dancer to take her place on the stage, we would leave the theater laughing. The untrained novice would break the laws of the dance, would look clumsy and graceless. The amateur hasn’t the freedom to dance with expression because he has not learned nor sacrificed himself to the laws that would give him grace and expression.

God is like that. Through perfect grace and discipline, God expresses himself perfectly within the framework of Universal Law.

The question one might ask is What does Universal Law require a God to do? I think the answer is that the Universal Law requires a God to nurture other beings into Godhood, to help others learn how to discipline themselves and learn how to perfectly express themselves with regard to Universal Law. But we are not there yet in this universe.

The universe we currently occupy is a schoolhouse that helps us to understand aspects of Universal Law in ways that we heretofore have not been able to experience. If there is violence here, if there is pain, if there is suffering,…and if there is peace here, if there is bliss, if there is comfort…it is because we need opposition in all things in the universe we currently occupy in order to achieve the discipline that leads to Godhood. We live in these imperfect conditions, in order to finally understand that by some eternal paradox, it is only through perfect obedience to the Law that perfect freedom is achieved.

And the lesson doesn’t end when we die. Death is not a graduation…it’s a commencement. Godhood is still down the road a bit.

Please let’s stop looking for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent fable we have conjured up in our minds. Such a God is no God at all. God’s power hangs upon Universal Law. This fact is God’s ultimate limitation, but also the very source of his limitless power. God can be infinite and eternal and still not be the container of all things.

[austintorn@aol.com]

the fact that the question can be asked proves exsistence

Not true and not astute, for not everything one can mention, imagine, or conceive of need be true… (think of the contradictions if nothing else comes to mind)

Now, first, define God, and we will see about proving His non-existence.

If He is an absolute fundamental system of Mind, Intelligence, and Emotions, then I can disprove Him.