Is it possible to prove the non-existence of God?

[ggullet]

Even the smallest of particles have a degree of freedom and has the uncertainty principle embedded in it.

once an action is made that action cannot be undone to the point that it will not affect subsequent actions. choice would involve completely undoing an action and doing something different without the previous action having any effect

[Profpat]

once an action is made that action cannot be undone to the point that it will not affect subsequent actions. choice would involve completely undoing an action and doing something different without the previous action having any effect

I think you are discussing total choice, I have limited choice, past choices affect my present, This helps in probability theory.

[Graybeard]

Even the smallest of particles have a degree of freedom and has the uncertainty principle embedded in it.

once an action is made that action cannot be undone to the point that it will not affect subsequent actions.

What Prof is saying, and I agree with him, is that there is an 'embedded' uncertainity in the outcome (owing to QM) regardless of the previous action. This leads to a different view of the relationship between cause and effect.

This is not the same as what you are saying.

GGullet, Have you heard of 'Epiphenomenalism' and if so do you agree with it. I would be interested to know.

cool bananas ... greg

[ggullet]

I think you are discussing total choice, I have limited choice, past choices affect my present, This helps in probability theory.

Sorry Prof, I tend to theorize one way or the other. choice or no choice. I can see where limited choice would also be useful in the dilemma of "if God knows everything we will do than how can we have a choice"

[austintorn@aol.com]

once an action is made that action cannot be undone to the point that it will not affect subsequent actions. choice would involve completely undoing an action and doing something different without the previous action having any effect

Once I stole something and then put it back; then fell and bumped my head, erasing the memory…

[ggullet]

What Prof is saying, and I agree with him, is that there is an 'embedded' uncertainity in the outcome (owing to QM) regardless of the previous action. This leads to a different view of the relationship between cause and effect.

This is not the same as what you are saying.

GGullet, Have you heard of 'Epiphenomenalism' and if so do you agree with it. I would be interested to know.

cool bananas ... greg

I tend to lean more towards nihilism, however I don't agree with Nietzsche.
I am also a realist who believes to get along you have to go along. But here in toeland I can express my true beliefs.

[ggullet]

once an action is made that action cannot be undone to the point that it will not affect subsequent actions. choice would involve completely undoing an action and doing something different without the previous action having any effect

Once I stole something and then put it back; then fell and bumped my head, erasing the memory…

What would CGJ have to say about that

[Graybeard]

nihil, (nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Nihilists generally assert that objective morality does not exist, and that no action is logically preferable to any other in regard to the moral value of one action over another.

Nihilists who argue that there is no objective morality may claim that existence has no intrinsic higher meaning or goal. They may also claim that there is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator,

I see what you mean, I just checked it on the Wiki. I could be one myself, and not even know it ..... lol. However this doesn't lessen anything in my eyes, I am still in awe of the Universe and I have a very optimistic outlook.

I would disagree with the remark 'without value'

thanks ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

the dilemma of "if God knows everything we will do than how can we have a choice"

Which is why God is self-contradictory in making our life to be a test and so therefore he does not exist.

[Profpat]

Sorry Prof, I tend to theorize one way or the other. choice or no choice. I can see where limited choice would also be useful in the dilemma of "if God knows everything we will do than how can we have a choice"

You are ASSUMING omniscience here, and further that omniscience is somehow limited to sequential time. Why couldn't all possibilities be known and indeed accomplished in multiverses, and where you are at, is the result of your own limited personal choices.

If there is no ending than everything is a beginning.