Is it possible to prove the non-existence of God?

[austintorn@aol.com]

Then who was it that made that one up, if not the early "scientists?" It's too easy to justify that science can change tack and then mock other disciplines for doing the same; such as the spirituals cannot agree...


In those days the spiritual were the scientists and vice-versa. They said that the sun and all revolved around the earth as well as saying that the earth was flat—and even put some to death for noting otherwise.

Please do homework before ranting, since, again that doesn't do so well for ToeQuest.

[leskey]

...Sure. You reinforce the view that truth is scattered everywhere.

Humankind continues its journey to acquire knowledge in order to manipulate existence to it's will...

...Then who was it that made that one up, if not the early "scientists?" It's too easy to justify that science can change tack and then mock other disciplines for doing the same; such as the spirituals cannot agree...

Austin's replies:

Science always tries to say that it is guessing about a near fit when it is not a sure fit, such as classical physics was only an approximation until relativity came to light. It was actual experiments that showed this. Before then, they had the best theory about real happening that they could. Science is delighted to find new information to refine their current formulas.

Yes, you may mock it, but not only did I see it, but I'm sure that you can find it on the internet.

Not being nice, as above, only makes ToeQuest a poorer place.

In those days the spiritual were the scientists and vice-versa. They said that the sun and all revolved around the earth as well as saying that the earth was flat—and even put some to death for noting otherwise.

Please do homework before ranting, since, again that doesn't do so well for ToeQuest.


I agree with the implied message that it is narcissistic to take everything personally. So let's keep it civilized, shall we?

The content of my post may not be to your liking, but it certainly doesn't justify the unrelenting, unmitigated use of language to belittle and intimidate. THAT "doesn't do so well for ToeQuest" and "only makes ToeQuest a poorer place."

I am continuing to improve my understanding and have recently read a paper by the physicist, Mario Rabinowitz, which proposes that there may be reason to question the validity of several long-standing theories. Quote:

"Occasionally theories become established without a good foundation of supporting experiments. They become part of the lore of physics and are difficult to displace by a competing theory. Until the old theory is proven wrong by experiment, new paradigms are considered wrong by definition since they predict results which differ from those of the established, hence "correct," theory."

It is only human, having acquired knowledge, to cling dearly to that knowledge - even hold it sacred; however, the only value in knowledge is for it to remain flexibile and to continue to create ("evolve" into) new knowledge if progress is to be made and goals achieved.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Yes, Leskey, science looks at the real with an inquiring mind and establishes best-fit formulas, always hoping for new information and experiments to either further establish them or to refine them.

This reinforces truth, consolidating it, not "scattering" it everywhere (as you wrongly say that I do in your identified mocking of my seeing molecules and atoms statement… debate would be preferable to mocking, would it not?).

The spiritual have a limited mind, since they claim to already have the [invisible] answer.

The Church put the "scientists" to death who discovered the contrary facts.

No use getting mad, Leskey, in this and some other posts, as these are just ideas, not personal… you could look up the atoms "seeing" stuff: they spelled "IBM" with the atoms… and discuss it, you know, rather than not… with ... "Sure. You reinforce the view that truth is scattered everywhere."

When the spiritualists cannot agree, it is the truth that they cannot agree… and how could they ever? The beliefs are relative to one's individual nature. Nor does science mock.

unrelenting, unmitigated use of language to belittle and intimidate

Please show the "unrelenting"…
(broad swipes are unfair and uncivilized unless supported by details…)

[leskey]

Leskey, science looks at the real with an inquiring mind and establishes best-fit formulas, always hoping for new information and experiments to either further establish them or to refine them.

This reinforces truth, consolidating it, not "scattering" it everywhere (as you wrongly say that I do in your identified mocking of my seeing molecules and atoms statement… debate would be preferable to mocking, would it not?).

I don't mind restating that it is the TRUTH that is scattered. Science does indeed attempt to consolidate it.

No use getting mad, Leskey...

Far from it, Austin...peace to you and yours...

[austintorn@aol.com]

May the truth and peace be with you, Leskey, and joy, and all that comes with life and out of ToeQuest stimulating our minds ever onward and, for you, ever upward.

[Mikal]

"The spiritual have a limited mind"....Austin....


"It is only the higher self which can through the spirit, experience the perceptual loss of the physical body..."

Quote....Gerald O'Donnell speaking about NDE and OBE....


"If you can escape from the state of mass consciousness, you can reach higher creational energy and experience Subliminal Intelligence..."

Quote...Gerald O'Donnell...speaking about Altered States of Consciousness...


This would not be the mind limited Austin, "spiritual" experiences" are events in the Psyche, events in the mental environment of the psyche. It is simply to transcend the conscious mind which is full of conditioned mass consciousness and rise up into the mind working with higher, creational energy, a mind fully able to work with information that lies beyond the grasp of reason. In this state, a person is no longer subject to the "thought-directions" of mass consciousness. To be sentient is simply to live in a state of higher awareness, a state of inner moral integrity, a state of emotional integrity and finally to agree consciously to struggle and finnesse the development and evolution of our own social potential to be aware of ourselves in the "body of society."


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

And, yet, somehow, without all that, I already live "there", which is probably why you like and love me. I know that I don't compute or resonate with the spiritual at all, yet here I am.

[austintorn@aol.com]

The Notion of God is Irrelevant

…for one makes up these kinds of origins of the cosmos…

…these ideas ever born of the narcissism of human mammals wishing through their unholy pride of self-importance that the multiverse has dedicated itself throughout eternity so that their one flower could bloom for a brief shining moment within the “parenthesis” of the unbounded forevers of always.

The light of existence of something ever had to be, for “Nothing” could not—or it would have forever been “here” in all its darkness.

We are thrust into this life, willy-nilly, not asking, but free as the wind, at first not even knowing, dealing with living with grace and style, knowing only that we are.

Born of stardust, we stand atop 13.73 billion years of recombinations that rose up into our beautiful composites of complexity, all becoming of the movement of atoms and their higher forms, the molecules and the cells—of the dust of eternity granted by the guiding stars.

We were once the grass, and then the waving wheat of Mother Nature and Father Time, even now retaining and matching them as 15% of our own DNA.

The radiance of eternity was strained into the roots and colors of our flowers of life. We learned wisdom by the fireside, this life leading us along the riverside, watering our flowers through the springtide of near-man, proto-man and early man.

Of the garden of stardust, of that black and endless eternal deep, nature’s fertile soil grew us from our “sleep”, sees us bud, flower, leaf, thrive, and die, then lays us back to rest, our dust to keep and use anew.

We are as the eternal creative smile, beaming now as the universal epistyle. In us the cosmos has come alive—thus we borrow life from death for a little while.

So on earth I live, just as alive as a tree, savoring the feeling of life’s poetry, with all the flowers symbolizing living that were used in Shakespeare’s plays, growing together in my living bouquet.

Everywhere the beauty calls to me as the seasons turn round, even though my Summer has long passed, but I have Autumn, sweet and plump and alive in me, bearing Summer’s offspring. This year of mine will die in the night one day, when ghostly winter comes and my flower petals will drop away, but then that debris of potpourri will go on as the dust to help the next Spring’s flowers arise from the seeds.

Born of stardust and nourished by sunlight, I fill my cup with wonders of delight. Life is a treasure, a radiant gem, a vision that I’ll never see again.

Yet I roam at ease, drinking the sweets from flowers, riding the balmy breezes in bowers, and accepting nature’s dearest favors that life offers in so many flavors.

Others may arise, perhaps, from stardust once again, as the Music of the Spheres plays in the dark of space, their dust flung down to our Father, the Sky, through the soft night to our Mother, the Earth, then to those like us, their audience and progeny.

And, then, you worry that all will not last, that the likes of all of us someday will be the past, and wonder whither whence we went after the last of us her life has spent…

…The Eternal Energy has formed trillions of baubles like thee, and will form, forevermore—the comings and passings of which the Energy emits to immerse as much the air’s self heeds bubbles blown and burst.

Yes, we’ve been touched, and are so touched by the starlight, such that we'll ne’er be the same again. Can you sense the euphony of the spheres? Can you fathom the theory of everything?

[Mikal]

And, yet, somehow, without all that, I already live "there", which is probably why you like and love me. I know that I don't compute or resonate with the spiritual at all, yet here I am.

Yes Austin, it very much seems that in our perceptual history within our own experience of being alive we are quite diverse and more than likely are all on varying levels of personal and individual evolution.

This does not mean that one life is more important than another, or that certain lives are chosen so to speak as some in the past have proclaimed but it might mean that "soulwise" our learning structures just represent many possible probable futures of which our own evolution might possibly take us....


Mikal

[mkirkpatrick]

The answer to this threads title is simply NO! Can anymore
really be said?



regards michael.