Is it possible to prove the non-existence of God?

[ggullet]

Everyone is right in their own way.

Hi Mel, that was the point I wanted to get to. when I see statements like "that's what people seem to miss" it sounds like the writer is trying to determine what is right or wrong for everyone. I take "miss"in this case to mean lacking, or without, which have negative conotations. This is also the reason a lot of my replies are so short, as I read quotes I usually don't get very far before I get to something that I fundamentally disagree with, therefore I immediatly stop and inquire, whats the point in continuing a journey that starts on the wrong street? but I could be wrong. peace

[Mikal]

Human laws have become 'about control'.
The important thing here is that Humans can think. Thought has no restriction. But, restrictions were deemed necessary. These restrictions are universal. With only a few changes, which are mainly because of different perspectives. Humans are a part of the universe, then the way they behave affects the workings of the universe, and since the behavior of mankind, is now dependent on these Human laws, they become a part of the universal law, kind of like a subclass, to the natural laws.
???

No, the workings of an ocean do not depend on human laws, but, if they affect any humans then they affect the human laws. Everything happening in the universe, has an affect on everything else, because everything in the universe is connected.

It's kinda hard to imagine, human laws as part of the universal laws, but, I am still only hypothesizing.

Hi Mo....human laws pale in reflection to the Universal laws which govern our spirit.
I know that everything in the Universe is connected because I experienced it in the evolution of my own consciousness...it changes you forever....smiles...

Mikal

[melanie]

Hi Mel, that was the point I wanted to get to. when I see statements like "that's what people seem to miss" it sounds like the writer is trying to determine what is right or wrong for everyone. I take "miss"in this case to mean lacking, or without, which have negative conotations. This is also the reason a lot of my replies are so short, as I read quotes I usually don't get very far before I get to something that I fundamentally disagree with, therefore I immediatly stop and inquire, whats the point in continuing a journey that starts on the wrong street? but I could be wrong. peace

Hi ggullet.

Forget the years, forget distinctions. Leap into the boundless and make it your home!



"Discussion on Making All Things Equal"

A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap.
A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare.

Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Where can I find someone who's forgotten words so I can have a word with him?...

[melanie]

Hi Mel, that was the point I wanted to get to. when I see statements like "that's what people seem to miss"
it sounds like the writer is trying to determine what is right or wrong for everyone.

I take "miss"in this case to mean lacking, or without, which have negative conotations.

This is also the reason a lot of my replies are so short,
as I read quotes I usually don't get very far before I get to something that I fundamentally disagree with,
therefore I immediatly stop and inquire,

whats the point in continuing a journey that starts on the wrong street? but I could be wrong. peace

t's worthwhile
to keep in mind
that not everyone who comes along
or crosses our path
is seeking something
that we have
or asking for anything
that we can give

sometimes
someone arrives
simply to remind us
that we're only passing through
our mutual origins and destinations unknown
and what looks like a misstep or wrong turn
from our viewpoint
is not wrong
cannot be wrong

it's often our own viewpoint
that misguides us
and our intentions
sometimes reflect this
I know it has for me at least

it's enough to watch our own step
and if we're lucky we walk together for awhile
but it's rare that others
make good companions for very long
and rarer still that we might ever agree
on the best way to go

maybe the best we can do
is offer a happy greeting
lend an open ear and open mind
maybe the most compassionate
might offer to carry another's load for awhile
when the other asks

in the end
and maybe even at every step
we must learn to say goodbye
and to trust in what it is we seek...

the unknown

~ unwritten ~

[melanie]

Humans are a part of the universe, then the way they behave affects the workings of the universe,
and since the behavior of mankind, is now dependent on these Human laws,
they become a part of the universal law, kind of like a subclass, to the natural laws.

It's kinda hard to imagine, human laws as part of the universal laws, but, I am still only hypothesizing.

You can let other people rule your life, or you can follow your intuition.
Let your conscience be your guide.
If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about.
Be as free as you are.
What is this 'you', as you experience yourself?
The 'you' as you know yourself is a product of the momentum of that knowledge that is passed on to us.
It has this question which you think is a very intelligent question.
Through your demand for an answer to that question it wants to know how to add momentum to that knowledge.
It is not 'you' because 'you' don't exist.
There is no individual there at all.
Culture, society, or whatever you want to call it, has created 'you' and 'me' for the sole purpose of maintaining its own continuity.
But, at the same time, we are made to believe that you have to become an individual.
These two things have created this neurotic situation for us.
There is no such thing as an individual, and there is no such thing as freedom of action.
Nature's universal laws know no reward, only punishment.
The reward is only that ''you'' are in harmony with nature.

[Mohan.C]

Hi Mo....human laws pale in reflection to the Universal laws which govern our spirit.
I know that everything in the Universe is connected because I experienced it in the evolution of my own consciousness...it changes you forever....smiles...

Mikal

Exactly the point I was trying to make.
Pale but not absent. What we(humans) do certainly has an impact on the universe, however small that impact may be.

The impact is relative according to us. But, what if the universe is absolute, then the universe should not feel the impact of the humans, because if it does it would become relative. Which is a contradiction. Then can we say, that the universe is not the absolute.

????

[Mikal]

Hi Mo....I have studied ancient history for long years so completely understand the terms "as above so below" and "we are in the universe and the universe is within us"...there is no way in my thought that we can be divided and so therefore we experience the impact of the universe just as the universe receives the impact of humanity....


Mikal

[Mohan.C]

No one thought up being;
he who thinks he has

Step forward



-Jim Morrison.

[austintorn@aol.com]

The 50-Step Program

1.
My god is obvious.

No — it’s certainly not obvious,
But seems so because it is a beautiful wish.
There are even many tragedies in life
Which make it appear that, ‘obviously’,
A benign being can not possibly exist.


2.
Almost everybody on Earth is religious.

Not anymore.
In history humans do seem to
Have religion throughout the earth,
But with the growth of scientific knowledge,
this has become less so.


3.
Faith is a good thing.

Faith is necessary to some people,
But neither a good nor a bad thing....
Just necessary; otherwise,
One would be so full of fear
That one would not be able to function;
But, then, too, may come the fear of Hell.


4.
Archaeological discoveries prove that my god exists.

Archaeological discoveries only prove
That religion has existed....


5.
Only my god can make me feel significant.

Because one is conscious
One knows one is significant,
But not necessarily important.


6.
Atheism is just another religion.

Atheism is another way of being....
Or looking at life.


7.
Evolution is bad.

Evolution is a way of looking at
What has happened — it is neither good nor bad.


8.
Our world is too beautiful to be an accident.

Our World is very beautiful.....
But very cruel, and in many ways corrupt.
The world and the universe at large
Are not congenial.


9.
My god created the universe.

Forever stuff, the basis,
Never has definiton,
For there was no time at which
It could have been defined.


10.
Believing in my god makes me happy.

Believing in no beginning and no end
Makes me feel 'satisfied',
But sometimes I am happy
And sometimes unhappy.
This is just the human condition.


11.
Better safe than sorry.

This is an obnoxious philosophy—
Honoring 'God' with lips
But hearts far from seeking
The truth/enlightenment.


12.
A sacred book proves my god is real.

The sacred books cause most of the problems!
A book is always only ever about men's thoughts....


13.
Divine justice proves my god is real.

There doesn't seem to be any justice,
So that can't prove anything.


14.
My god answers prayers.

Amputees are never healed.


15.
I would rather worship my god than the devil.

This assumes that there is
A Good Being and a Bad Being
And that either of them
Would be small-minded enough
To want to be worshipped.
A feeble assumption.


16.
My god heals sick people.

If he did, he would heal them all, not just some.
Prayer can help a person to cope
With pain and suffering....
One’s own or another’s. Prayer/meditation/contemplation
Can relax a person
So that the body can be helped.


17.
Anything is better than being an atheist.

It is OK to be an atheist—
So long as you don't wish to exterminate
All the ones who are agnostic
Or just merely hopeful
That we are not merely just flesh and blood.

Anything is better than a person
Who wants to kill another
Because he doesn't perceive life
In the same way.


18.
My god made the human body.

The human body evolved.


19.
My god sacrificed his only son for me.

No....because the Christian faith,
Which gives this message
Also says that the son is still alive....
So not sacrificed as in exterminated.
Nor did the Jewish Jesus
Even intend to start a new religion
Based on this or anything


20.
Atheists are jerks who think they know everything.

They know much more than
What is simply pronounced.


31.
Intelligent design proves my god is real.

The ‘design’ is not intelligent.


32.
Millions of people can't be wrong about my religion.

Millions of people can't even possibly agree
About what constitues religion.
Two people can't even agree entirely....


33.
Miracles prove my god is real.

Depends how you define a miracle.
An empty chrysalis which becomes a butterfly....
Is delightful. This but proves that nature is real.


34.
Religion is beautiful.

Religion can be very ugly indeed.
Truth is beautiful.


35.
Some very smart people believe in my god.

And some smart people don’t.


36.
Ancient prophecies prove my god exists.

I haven't seen any ancient prophecies
That make any sense.
Even history is, sometimes,
Warped to fit what the narator
Wants you to hear.


37.
No one has ever disproved the existence of my god.

Austin has,
In the ‘Science vs. God’ thread.

The Theity who is supposed
To be everywhere is not found;
Only the natural is found.

Even a Deity could not exist
As the first and eternally causeless fundamental.

This is because a system of mind
That can do planning, design, creating, and so forth
Would have to reply on parts
That were even more fundamental;

Plus, that the complexity of being and other composites
Lies way at the other end of the spectrum
From the fundamentals;

And that nothing comes from Nothing
And so there couldn't have been
Any creation or Creator of the ground-state,
It having always been there
As the natural state of affairs.


38.
People have gone to heaven and returned.

There is no such place as heaven…
There is just a state of mind.


39.
Religion brings people together.

Religion separates people.
It becomes ‘they’ versus ‘us’.
Because different people
Have different perceptions
About what is important.
It is OK to be separate.
It is when we all pretend
To be nodding in agreement
That the trouble begins.


40.
My god inspires people.

What is in people [not God[
Does inspire them....
As artists, writers, musicians....
Whatever.


41.
Science can't explain everything.

Not yet.
We don't know what 'black holes' are, do we?
We don't know what anti-matter is do we?
But we know they are there.
We haven't explained them yet.
There is plenty of time though.


42.
Society would fall apart without religion.

Society would fall apart without laws.
Religion, too, has been used
To make people abide by the laws.


43.
My religion is so old, it must be true.

On the grand scale…
No religion is very old.
Humans haven't really been here
On the earth for very long…
We are still evolving…
If we don't exterminate ourselves first.


44.
Someone I trust told me that my god is real.

What people have told me
Has made it all seem 'unreal' at times,
Not to say downright silly.


45.
Atheism is a negative and empty philosophy.

Atheism is just a state of being.
Perhaps one needs to reject 'taught' religion
As silly before an inner god enlightens you,
If and when you want to be enlightened.


46.
Believing in a god doesn't hurt anyone.

Believing and trying to impose
Your belief on others can hurt millions.
Otherwise, fine.


47.
The earth is perfectly tuned to support life.

Earth is perfectly tuned to support
Some forms of life unless
We botch it all up completely.
Other places definitely are not.


48.
Believing is natural so my god must be real.

The search for a satisfying spiritual life
Can be natural from natural selection.


49.
The end is near.

Says who, 2012?


50.
I am afraid of not believing.

Yes… I think, therefore I am…
If I stop thinking I might stop being…
And in spite of everything…
I quite like being.


Earth could not answer; nor the Seas that mourn
In flowing Purple, of their Lord forlorn;
Nor rolling Heaven, with all his Signs reveal’d
And hidden by the sleeve of Night and Morn.

[jim barlow]

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of anything. (See "language")

Thank you for "proving" my existence

Now behave yourself. They might lock you up.