[jim barlow]

In my math 0 stands for undifferentiated everything. 1 is everything except 1 and so on.
"Nothing" is a pre-form totality, a full potential. As soon as there is form that is taken away from the undifferentiated totality, leaving it minus that form.
(See "man is the death of god" -Blake)
And vice versa. While one sleeps the other wakes.

On the other side we see that form emerge from an undifferentiated background similar to a virtual particle.

Our mind then is it differentiated from all that?
I would say yes and no simultaneously. Just like a virtual particle.

[Mr. Nobody]

True existence is so much greater than what our mind relates to a god, described in man-made cook books as a petty, jealous, vindictive and vain deity in need of constant admiration and worship.
Christianity specifically and religion in general have lost their significance. Mankind, intelligent matter, is part of the original energy. We have developed senses that serve us well to preserve order, but fail to comprehend the obvious implication of eternal existence for existence sake. There is no destiny, no fate, no judgment of life nor actions other than your own conscience, a conscience evolved as a social survival tool when man climbed down from the trees and founded humanity.
Mankind, organized matter within reality observing itself, we are all connected as the cells of the universe forming this existence, called god. We live and die inside god, we are god

[Guille]

Jim, all things are complete for themselves, for there is nothing else than themselves. So that is 0, 1, 2, 3... But 0 is nothing. The fact that we talk about zero or nothing converts it into something, therefore something is nothing, therefore all somethings are nothings, therefore everything is nothing, and nothing is everything. These are the horrible errors of treating 0 and nothing as things. So, whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

[jim barlow]

Here is an interesting math
Suppose there is no such concept possible as “nothing”. (Inspired by quantum physics.)
You are right, nothing and non-existence (and a few other things in the media) cannot be talked about unless one insists on his constitutional right to talk madness.

Now the math…

it starts with the totality of all numbers. This is a finite closed system, like the Universe and all the particles in it. This largest, all inclusive number is called 0.(Like somebody who is called Sue)

"1" is the next largest. (Forget fractions for now.) 12223243434454545 is a relatively small number.
The +#-s and the –#s are the two complementary series that combined give the totality adding up to 0. This number system should be thought about and takes some getting used to.
This is a handy system when looked into. It gets rid of those pesky "infinities" of whom, again, we can't (or shouldn't) say anything. It has other advantages and fixes a few problems.

[QuantumGhost]

"The fact that we talk about zero or nothing converts it into something, therefore something is nothing, therefore all somethings are nothings, therefore everything is nothing, and nothing is everything." -Guille

It is understood that although zero IS something (i.e. it's a number), it is still nothing compared to all the other numbers. Think about it. The definition of zero is that when it is combined with something else, you get that something else. e.g. 1+0=1. I think it is just a word game: zero is something in terms of existence and being (i.e. it is a word), but it is nothing in terms of math and other subjects that refer to zero as nothing. It's an abstract idea, and the terminology doesn't matter.

-QuantumGhost

[Guille]

Originally Posted by QuantumGhost

"The fact that we talk about zero or nothing converts it into soemthing, therefore something is nothing, therefore all somethings are nothings, therefore everything is nothing, and nothing is everything." -Guille

It is understood that although zero IS something (i.e. it's a number), it is still nothing compared to all the other numbers. Think about it. The definition of zero is that when it is combined with something else, you get that something else. e.g. 1+0=1. I think it is just a word game: zero is something in terms of existence and being (i.e. it is a word), but it is nothing in terms of math and other subjects that refer to zero as nothing. It's an abstract idea, and the terminology doesn't matter.

-QuantumGhost

Yes, I know that the meaning of what nothing or zero represents is non-existence, but they do exist themselves as things in our thought. but still, can we see zero, smell it, touch it, hear it, taste it, measure it, experiment it... NO. All numbers can be physically measured: counting. But you will never see 0 of something because that is nothing.

[Mr. Nobody]

Nothing is my destiny. I chose to write and I chose to think. I recognize the fact that in this universe that act of thinking about ones existence, destiny, fate and faith is nothing more than one unit trying to orient itself within chaos, trying to assign, find and create order and evolve in response to the presence of constant disorder.
Its all about evolution, who survives and who dies. There is no beauty, just random mutations taking their turns

[jim barlow]

Let’s approach this “God” from another angle. His/her character.
He likes to hide. Otherwise it would be easier to find him.
He likes a little unpredictability. (Justice is a human improvement.)
He despises fanaticism. (They usually end up badly)
He doesn't’ like prayers, praise or a..kissing. (whoever does that to him is usually poor, old and sick.)
He likes war. He likes evolution based on mutual extinction. He is anti-individual.
He is in continuous conflict with human nature which is separate from him to some extent. (Hence the improvements:justice, social programs, logical thinking)
Now for the more practical aspect.
He is powerful and we better try to play along.
What does he approve of? I think he approves of an intermittent warfare followed by bits of peace. On a more individual level you quickly do onto others and then turn your eyes toward space. That man walks with God.

[QuantumGhost]

" Let’s approach this “God” from another angle. His/her character.
He likes to hide. Otherwise it would be easier to find him.
He likes a little unpredictability. (Justice is a human improvement.)
He despises fanaticism. (They usually end up badly)
He doesn’t like prayers, praise or a..kissing. (whoever does that to him is usually poor, old and sick.)
He likes war. He likes evolution based on mutual extinction. He is anti-individual. " -jim barlow

If you look more deeply into religion, you'll see that G-d is not as you described him. He is much more...goal-oriented. He has His reasons for everything.

" True existence is so much greater than what our mind relates to a god, described in man-made cook books as a petty, jealous, vindictive and vain deity in need of constant admiration and worship. " -Mr. Nobody

Again, if you look into modern religious beliefs, G-d is not as you described Him. For example, I recently learned one opinion as to why G-d created the world: G-d is omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Out of His infinite kindness, He created the world to give humanity a chance to live, to do what is right, and basically to exist. G-d does not need worship! After all, worship is simply thanking G-d for various things. Worship and praise are ways of thanking G-d for creating the world and giving humanity a chance to live. This is one opinion, but it makes sense and goes well with everything else that religion supports.

-QuantumGhost

[jimmy71177]

Even If everyone saw GOD and all agreed he was real, would we not question his origin. I feel the need to find out what created existence as we know it but if GOD did "explain" everything would his divinity excuse him from the exact same questioning. Althogh it may be heresy, I would wonder about GOD's beginnings(excusing time). Also,no matter what or who defines GOD there will always be a question of its accuracy at least by me and I'm sure by everyone here. It has happened time and time again throughout history. Once a belief is disproven, that belief is considered a misinterpretation. As if you couldn't tell I'm agnostic, mostly for these reasons. I agree that it is an infinite question, fun to debate, impossible to defeat.