[Guille]

Enton,
Michael's post is correct, and as much as it is correct, we will never agree upon anything. This is something that I like saying to people like you: You have seen the light, as you call it. Yes, and this light is so bright that it has blinded you. And you can see no more but white. Well, here the light is religion, the blindness is your extreme absurd belief, and the white is god. I don't even understand why you come to these threads to discuss, if you yourself don't want to discuss! To stay in your position, no matter what you read or see, and in such a position that you can't even look at others properly, it is worthless to come to these threads and discuss.

[jim barlow]

I am comfortable with a panoply of gods as in Greece and Rome and other places. Whether ultimately there is one or two I really don't care. I have my hands full with the parthenon - and taking it lightly. I consider the monogod of the Judeo - Arabs a disaster, a rape of consciousness, a repulsive political invention squirting populations all over and culminating in wars, persecutions and lost people. Imagine Hitler winning the war because the US fell apart. These things happen and it happened thanks to the climate that prevailed 2000 years ago. The separation of church and state was a step toward normalcy. Things are beginning very slowly to clear the forces of darkness notwithstanding. They're on the offensive in the US, Iran, Israel and a few other places but can't bring back the dreaded Paul and the Mongols of the Mediterranean.
Jim

[mkirkpatrick]

Is there something greater than me,If I think not,then I am completely bonkers
and need help,and maybe a rest in a mental hospital,or my egois so inflated that
I lose sight of reality.Forme God is the intelligent design of reality,in whom I live and move and have my being,and as I am partof this Being,then I am eternal
as well,and have infinite potential within me,as weall have.I do not need to believe anyone about this,the answer lies within,I was told many years ago if
you need to find out who you are,where you are,and where you came from,then
look within,ask yourself,your inner self,your higher self,in quiet meditation,listen
to that still small voice within.it will not let you down,it has neverlet me down
as yet,and I trust it never will.God is within,you will not find it without,for there
is no outside,in Reality All Is Within.


kindest regards michael.

[BIG-BERTA]

All i want to know is there a need for a god to exist? If there is let me know why.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by BIG-BERTA

All i want to know is there a need for a god to exist? If there is let me know why.

Hi big-berta. After a long time of serious and technical analization of the anthropological meaning of god, as well as the sociological and the psychological meanings, I can say that actually yes, humanity needs the idea of a god. Why? Because we don't know, understand, comprehend, explain and predict all of the events and phenomena in nature. When we do this we will prove there is no god. No matter if it isn't intentional. It will be achieving the GUTOE (Grand-Unifyed-Theory-Of-Everything).

[jim barlow]

I have no trouble with the inner force as described by the previous post.
Incidentally the monogod people would have problems with it. According to them the inner force is a sinner who has to listen to the "external agents" who will identify the "right" external force who has to be followed willy nilly.

Why worry about false doctrines so much? Because the SATANIC has a fascination for me. What is fascinating about a "show" that is repetitious, simpleton and always ass-backward? Well, it has a feature that some call a great trap, others, like me, well, like to play a little longer with it. It is CLARITY that the Satanic has. To be so sure of at least what's wrong...etc etc. Satanic is not so bad. Without it there is nothing much to talk about.
"Evil" I would not include in this concept. That is another obfuscation into which it likes to hide. But I wouldn't call it "healthy" either.

"Satanic" I use almost as a literary concept, a language game to describe features of psychic reality in a shorthand-like fashion where I don't have to start explaining from scratch, but more or less everybody knows what I am talking about.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by jim barlow

I have no trouble with the inner force as described by the previous post.
Incidentally the monogod people would have problems with it. According to them the inner force is a sinner who has to listen to the "external agents" who will identify the "right" external force who has to be followed willy nilly.

Why worry about false doctrines so much? Because the SATANIC has a fascination for me. What is fascinating about a "show" that is repetitious, simpleton and always ass-backward? Well, it has a feature that some call a great trap, others, like me, well, like to play a little longer with it. It is CLARITY that the Satanic has. To be so sure of at least what's wrong...etc etc. Satanic is not so bad. Without it there is nothing much to talk about.
"Evil" I would not include in this concept. That is another obfuscation into which it likes to hide. But I wouldn't call it "healthy" either.

"Satanic" I use almost as a literary concept, a language game to describe features of psychic reality in a shorthand-like fashion where I don't have to start explaining from scratch, but more or less everybody knows what I am talking about.

Hi. I think if someone believes in god then you can't say it's wrong to believe in the devil. Let me explain.

But why is the belief and worship to the devil false? If you believe in god, and if you believe in him from a monotheistic major religion (islam, christian, jewish), then you must also believe in the devil and in hell. Thus, you can't say the belief and worship is false, because you believe it, although you don't worship it, actually you do dedicate a lot of time to it, I mean, to not being bad, so you don't go with him. Thus, it's a sort of indirect worship.

In any case, you could say that the worship to the devil is "wrong". Just as you say it's wrong to believe in god from others religions apart from yours. But there is a difference between wrong and false. Wrong is subjective, it's the belief of each individual. But false, is something out there, it is not part of humans. Truth is also not human. Truth is what there is between the being and the event, nature. And so is false and falsity, it is not human, it is the fact of reality to be looked by humans.

[fguard8726]

I believe in God. As a person of faith I do not need proof, but I realize that not everyone feels the same way. Why is it that people need proof. Do you need proof that a watch, car, house or other object was made by someone and didn't just appear over a period of time. We are made far greater than any object. Why then do we know that those things are made by someone and yet feel that we could not have been created by God.

When you think of how the human body was designed. All the organs that work together - the design of all these organs....how can you not believe we were created. Two beings come together and a child is carried over a period of time in the womb of his/her mother and with perfect timing it grows and then is born.

Can you pop the hood on a car and look at all those parts that work together to make that car run...and say...it was not made by someone?

Sometimes people think too much...In a previous post someone states we should think and not pray....well what if that person and all those who do not believe in God are wrong?

Too much thought goes into trying to prove simple things...things that really cannot be explained. Sure there are those who have an opinion, high IQ's and even scientific knowledge....yet little common sense. What if they would spend half the time they have in proving there is no God in finding out if maybe there is one...would they have to admit that they are not really as smart as they want everyone to believe. And do you think that maybe they could be hiding behind their intelligence to avoid facing the truth?

[david44]

Universal Life Force Energy - The Source – Sunlight – Light – God - Electromagnetic Energy – The All in All – The Perfection that is – The Light that we are - Space Saturation - The Ether. It doesn’t matter what we call it, it’s all the same... ****“Home”

Again, I will say I do have a complete undertanding of this theme on my website. Everything is connected!

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

cheers David

[Guille]

Originally Posted by fguard8726

I believe in God.

First, please, describe what god is for you, your view of how he exists, and if you enter any of the religions.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

As a person of faith I do not need proof, but I realize that not everyone feels the same way.

Perfect, just like me, a person with no faith, believe that it is normal that many (most) people can believe without proof.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Why is it that people need proof.

Because we are humans, insignificant humans. And the best way that we can know something, is by having a proof of it, or atleast what we call proof. And if we stop knowing things, just believing them, we will self-destruct in a few....planck's time.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Do you need proof that a watch, car, house or other object was made by someone and didn't just appear over a period of time.

Yes. I know where cars come from, where watch are made, and from were we ebstract the materials of the house.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

We are made far greater than any object. Why then do we know that those things are made by someone and yet feel that we could not have been created by God.

We believe that those things are made by someone. Please don't make wrong use of language, it is already illogical itself, no need to make it worse.

Give any reason why we should believe that we are far greater than any object. What if there are other civilisations of life, more intelligent, better body, and a better believe in god?

Originally Posted by fguard8726

When you think of how the human body was designed. All the organs that work together - the design of all these organs....how can you not believe we were created. Two beings come together and a child is carried over a period of time in the womb of his/her mother and with perfect timing it grows and then is born.

WHAT!? That is not to do with god, fguard, it is something that some of us call life. And it's change and form is not god's desire, some of us call it evolution.

I know remember a very interesting anecdote. The marquees of Laplace was in a fiest one day. Napoleon, the emperor, came to him once and asked him "I have been told that you don't include god in your theory?" refering to Laplace's works on the movements of the planets. Laplace replyed "I did not requier that hypothesis". And suddenly, another french physical mathematician, Lagrange, added "Oh! But it is a very good hypothesis, it explain lots of things!" and Laplace, now getting quite anoyed by the insistence of them, answered "Yes, my friend Lagrange, but that is exactly it's weakness. It explains lots of things, in fact everything, but it predicts nothing". And true, we, the ones in toequest, want to know, but not only know, but know everything. This kind of knowledge we refer to is the mixture of prediction and understanding. We don't understand things by saying "it was god" and even less predict!

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Can you pop the hood on a car and look at all those parts that work together to make that car run...and say...it was not made by someone?

I didn't really understand this. Let me explain you the difference between a stupid car and the believe of god. A car is there, it has a function, defined and proven in the sense that we have sued it for it's function, so we don't ahve to test each car. We know that there is a human sequence of knowledge about each of the car's objects, and each of it's works. But we don't care about knowing that, most of us, some do, because cars are normal things, not so important for our minds. But such philosophical points of view as believing or not in god, change our whole view of the universe and of our selves. So it is a major thing. That is why we need to know wheather god exists, and we need to proof it, because it would mark our whole pic picture.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Sometimes people think too much...

No. Sometimes, actually, very often, like in many of the posts done in this thread, people think too little.

"I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room. "Said the mathematician Blaise Pascal. And it's true, if we sat, shut and tihnk, we would be further now that even god.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

"All the problemsIn a previous post someone states we should think and not pray....well what if that person and all those who do not believe in God are wrong?

However, pascal was wrong in this. As he was a mathematician, he abse dhis believes in pure math. He once said "Either god exists, or he doesn't exist. Either I beleive in him, or not. There are four possible otcomes:
exists-believe
exists-no believe
no exist-believe
no exist-no believe
If god exists and he believes, good. If god doesn't exists and he believes, good. If god doesn't exists and he doesn't believe, good. So the only one with a negative outcome is god exists and he doesnt' believe. Thus, whatever god exists or doesn't, it's best to beleive. This is what pascal said. But it is a stupid thing to do.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Too much thought goes into trying to prove simple things

NOOO!!!!!! We don¡'t need to proof simpel things, state an example. We always, humans, need proof of relevant important big things. Such sas the beleive in god.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

things that really cannot be explained.

As you believe god cannot be explaine,d then you must agree that you cannot know what god is. Thus, you don't believe in god, but in your god. Thus, it is a subjective concept. Thus, it lacks a major property of "god" which is objectivity. Thus your god is not god. Thus nthere is no god. Or you ar wrong in your believe.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

Sure there are those who have an opinion, high IQ's and even scientific knowledge....yet little common sense.

Oh yes, definately.....It's us, atheists, that lack of common sense. We should lern from those that go and fight for centuries to conquer a land which is not theirs, and which never belong to them, and which actually has no value, and kill an die for generations. And that is much more common sensial than just sitting down, and thinking, to help ourselves and humanity.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

What if they would spend half the time they have in proving there is no God in finding out if maybe there is one...

What if all you, thousands of millions of people that beleive in god, have wasted all your time in praying to god, in building stupid places wasting lots of money to worship god, and making other things to /for/about god... What if for once humanity had been smart... What if for once we started to think...noo, no...no because we ar eumans, and thus we won't think.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

would they have to admit that they are not really as smart as they want everyone to believe.

We don't want others to believe. We don't need it, we don't need it at all. Woudl you, believers, admit that you are not sure yourselves of god, as you want everyone to believe.

Originally Posted by fguard8726

And do you think that maybe they could be hiding behind their intelligence to avoid facing the truth?

Change thinkers to prayers:

And do you think that maybe they could be hiding behind their stupidity to avoid facing the truth?

The whole proble resides in believers! You want us to try and proof there sino god....But no, it's about you, to proof there is one! So, the once in error are those which believes until the contrary is proven.

Just like I admit that we, believers in the TOE, are wrong, aand will be until the opposite is proven (until the TOE is acheived, if achieved).

Anway, it is a wast eo ftime jsut to discusss with someone that will stick to his own point of view forever. That will not evena dmit a good point from the other. I don't believe for I have made many studies of what god is, and what believing in god impplies, and what it is to do with nature...And I've ocncluded absurd to believe in him.