[david44]

Originally Posted by pastor Jeff Otterman

God does not exist and God does not not exist. God stands outside existence and is involved in our very lives to the very breath we take. The God I say I believe in isn't really the God I believe in. I believe in the God behind the God which our culture pushes. For those who don't believe in God, tell me about the God you don't believe in and you may be shocked to know I don't believe in that God either. But I do believe in God.
Peace,
PJ

God is simply a Goal Ordering Device. And be careful what you ask for as you very often get.

If you ask to be a person without happiness, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person in pain with guilt, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person totally under the influence and control of others without the use of your own brain, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person that brings pain to others, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person who is totally in control of their own life, then you will achieve it. Whatever you want in life you will achieve it.

The trouble with most people is that they ask for things not of their own choosing. They believe what others tell them and do what they are told because of fear of rejection if they choose wrong. They don't seem to want the responsibility of their own life. And be rest assured it is the beliefs we have in our sub-conscious mind that we are asking for. So if those beliefs come from others and not from ourselves, then we still have to take responsibility for using them.

Universal Life Force Energy belongs to everyone and everything and is also used by everyone for everything. It's just that some groups of people claim to be the owners of this force and they are not.

(And the sad thing is.....is that most people have believed them)

God is simply a Goal Ordering Device. Be careful what you ask for as you very often get. Get yourself a goal book and write down your goals and dreams in absolute detail, and then give thanks and pray to your goal book.
Your Goal Ordering Device.

cheers David

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

[Guille]

Originally Posted by pastor Jeff Otterman

God does not exist and God does not not exist. God stands outside existence and is involved in our very lives to the very breath we take. The God I say I believe in isn't really the God I believe in. I believe in the God behind the God which our culture pushes. For those who don't believe in God, tell me about the God you don't believe in and you may be shocked to know I don't believe in that God either. But I do believe in God.
Peace,
PJ

It is precisely the fact that he exists and doesn't exist the principle of all the contradictions of god. Precisely the proof that he doesn't exist.

[jim barlow]

Imagine you check into a hotel. It is huge, it is crazy, it has more than you ever thought possible. I explore. Visit the bars, the restaurants, the massage places what have you. I meet people. I even meet officials of the hotel when desirable or necessary. The hotel manager isn't likely to cross my path. The owner of the hotel even less. We'd have nothing to talk about, nothing in common. Same with the hotel architect. I am not going to sit in my room and ruminate about the owner. There are things with which I am not concerned.
Incidentally Blake had a similar notion of the deistic thought process. There is a desert and at the other end a gigantic something with nothing in between. (I paraphrase) They killed off the witches, the faeries, the angels, the guardians, the spooks, the spirit world, killed them all off and substituted a bloated form that never talks to nobody. No thank you. I am interested in what is in between. In our own further evolution, space, mind travel, astral planes, merging with consciousness. The list is endless. Our evolution is endless. If it isn't there'll be something else that grows out of the earth and leaves it like eagle its nest.

[subversion]

I like your idea of a goal book and I think it is a good positive example for people. I want to ask you, if you believe that one person can change the world, will it work? Please tell me because this is what I am dieing to know.

Originally Posted by david44

God is simply a Goal Ordering Device. And be careful what you ask for as you very often get.

If you ask to be a person without happiness, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person in pain with guilt, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person totally under the influence and control of others without the use of your own brain, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person that brings pain to others, then you will achieve it.
If you ask to be a person who is totally in control of their own life, then you will achieve it. Whatever you want in life you will achieve it.

The trouble with most people is that they ask for things not of their own choosing. They believe what others tell them and do what they are told because of fear of rejection if they choose wrong. They don't seem to want the responsibility of their own life. And be rest assured it is the beliefs we have in our sub-conscious mind that we are asking for. So if those beliefs come from others and not from ourselves, then we still have to take responsibility for using them.

Universal Life Force Energy belongs to everyone and everything and is also used by everyone for everything. It's just that some groups of people claim to be the owners of this force and they are not.

(And the sad thing is.....is that most people have believed them)

God is simply a Goal Ordering Device. Be careful what you ask for as you very often get. Get yourself a goal book and write down your goals and dreams in absolute detail, and then give thanks and pray to your goal book.
Your Goal Ordering Device.

cheers David

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

[subversion]

yes, simple

Again the answer is hidden in the question. God can (assuming he exists) be so complex that he is more complex than he is, and that is the point that he becomes absolutely complex, in which case complexity is more than you can possibly imagine, in which case it goes full circle and becomes simplicity again. Complexity is it's own complexity in this case in which it is simplicity, just as the theory of everything is it's own theory, just as the law of laws is it's own law, so too the truth is it's own proof etc. etc. Once you reach absolution all contradictions meld like they do at the singularity. The singularity itself is a contradiction, because it says that something can essentially be nothing. Again, truth=inconsistency, and that's proven by the incompleteness theorem but we automatically refuse to see that truth of truth. We are automatically predisposed to reject the truth by the fact that the truth is not what we expect it to be. That's why science is based on false principles. For the same reason we are automatically predisposed to reject my guarantee. Hopefully we have the ability to only reject the truth for so long, until we realize it is best to embrace inconsistency and the truth. The truth is patient for us.

Originally Posted by <<>>

No, not simple at all.

The problem with that example is that it is abotu something exterior. That is why it can lead to fallacies as this one you give. But if the property is from within, for example "Can god be as complex that not even his complexity is complex enough to know it's complexiness?" has no solution, for god is supposed to be omni complex, omni simple, omniscient....

[david44]

Originally Posted by subversion

I like your idea of a goal book and I think it is a good positive example for people. I want to ask you, if you believe that one person can change the world, will it work? Please tell me because this is what I am dying to know.

The answer to this question is a lot more complicated than I could put into this website or my own for that matter. However, if you would like to be put onto the path to learn about such things, then I will say that you already create everyone and everything in your life. And that there is no such thing as an accident. Everything in life that we experience, whether it is good or bad was created because of thought.

The thoughts we had in our past created our present, and the thoughts we have in our lives today are the scripts of our lives tomorrow. We are totally responsible for our life whether we want to believe it or not. If we have wishy washy thoughts today, we will end up with a wishy washy lifestyle tomorrow. We create our own destiny by the thoughts we use in our minds today. Make no mistake about that, you are in total control of your life. However, if you choose to give it to someone else to control then it is still your decision.

You may want to read a book called Jonathon Livingston Seagull. It doesn't have anything to do with what I just mentioned, however, if you want to be on a path that is free from the control of others, I can think of no other book to recommend.


Also I would like to help you make another distinction with your phrase that Truth = Inconsistency. The inconsistency is only because everyone sees things from a different viewpoint and therefore everyone has there own truth. However, there is only one (1) reality. And reality exists beyond all belief systems.

If you want to be on a path of truth that does not have inconsistencies, then you will need to re-direct your thoughts to find out about what is a part of reality and what is not.

cheers David

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

[subversion]

Originally Posted by david44

The answer to this question is a lot more complicated than I could put into this website or my own for that matter. However, if you would like to be put onto the path to learn about such things, then I will say that you already create everyone and everything in your life. And that there is no such thing as an accident. Everything in life that we experience, whether it is good or bad was created because of thought.

The thoughts we had in our past created our present, and the thoughts we have in our lives today are the scripts of our lives tomorrow. We are totally responsible for our life whether we want to believe it or not. If we have wishy washy thoughts today, we will end up with a wishy washy lifestyle tomorrow. We create our own destiny by the thoughts we use in our minds today. Make no mistake about that, you are in total control of your life. However, if you choose to give it to someone else to control then it is still your decision.

You may want to read a book called Jonathon Livingston Seagull. It doesn't have anything to do with what I just mentioned, however, if you want to be on a path that is free from the control of others, I can think of no other book to recommend.


Also I would like to help you make another distinction with your phrase that Truth = Inconsistancy. The inconsistency is only because everyone sees things from a different viewpoint and therefore everyone has there own truth. However, there is only one (1) reality. And reality exists beyond all belief systems.

If you want to be on a path of truth that does not have inconsistencies, then you will need to re-direct your thoughts to find out about what is a part of reality and what is not.

cheers David

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

You are a very smart and creative man David, in my opinion, but I have to tell you that inconsistency is part of reality. For inconsistency is the very definition and nature of time itself. Thanks for the advice about being wishy washy. I truly believe I can change the world so I take your advice to mean that I can. Thank you so much for this encouragement if it is indeed what you meant.

Originally Posted by david44

The inconsistency is only because everyone sees things from a different viewpoint and therefore everyone has there own truth. However, there is only one (1) reality. And reality exists beyond all belief systems.

So the one viewpoint that we all share is the viewpoint that we share different viewpoints. Aha, a self contradictory statement of truth. So that is the reality, which proves that inconsistency is true and not to be feared. Yet another reaffirmation. Your other statement says you believe that reality exists beyond belief, which suggests this belief isn't real, which suggests it is, which suggests it isn't. Another self contradictory statement of truth. behold!

[david44]

Originally Posted by subversion

You are a very smart and creative man David, in my opinion, but I have to tell you that inconsistency is part of reality. For inconsistency is the very definition and nature of time itself. Thanks for the advice about being wishy washy. I truly believe I can change the world so I take your advice to mean that I can. Thank you so much for this encouragement if it is indeed what you meant.



So the one viewpoint that we all share is the viewpoint that we share different viewpoints. Aha, a self contradictory statement of truth. So that is the reality, which proves that inconsistency is true and not to be feared. Yet another reaffirmation. Your other statement says you believe that reality exists beyond belief, which suggests this belief isn't real, which suggests it is, which suggests it isn't. Another self contradictory statement of truth. behold!

In the world that I live in, we have a saying......

There is absolutely no such thing as an absolute in life.

And yet that saying is an absolute in itself. So where does that leave us?

You must do what is in your heart and what you see is right for you. Just remember one thing. We only receive in life what we ask for. If we only ever ask to see up to inconsistency because we believe that that is all there is, then do not be disappointed if that is all you achieve.

cheers David

http://theuniversalcodeofliving.com

[jim barlow]

The purpose is to become GODs ourselves. We've come part of the way and we'll go all the way.

What we think we "know" about "god" is our own echo of ourselves from the future.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by jim barlow

The purpose is to become GODs ourselves. We've come part of the way and we'll go all the way.

What we think we "know" about "god" is our own echo of ourselves from the future.

Yes!!! That is exactly what I've been saying throughout this thread. The aim of human life and existence is, only is, and is completely and absolutely to achieve perfection. Each of us does it in his/her own manner, but it is the same thing. Even if you do wrong things, you are getting near to achieve perfection, for perfection is completely good and completely bad. Infinity, finite, immortal, mortal... Dualistic properties as such are parts of perfection. Parts of everything as a whole. Parts of "god".