Primal Principle.

[mkirkpatrick]

At a point a line appeared a line that was to become a
universe,within this line the primal principle was already
resident.

From absolute stillness motion is born,an idea that casts
a shadow throughout the physical universe.

Is the primal principle an absolute thought wave that is
still being realised?

Consciousness has so much within its matrix,does it then
also contain the primal principle? Or even is it the primal
principle?


regards michael.

[melanie]

At a point a line appeared a line that was to become a
universe,within this line the primal principle was already
resident.

From absolute stillness motion is born,an idea that casts
a shadow throughout the physical universe.

Is the primal principle an absolute thought wave that is
still being realised?

Consciousness has so much within its matrix,does it then
also contain the primal principle? Or even is it the primal
principle?


regards michael.

Hi michael.

Good thread michael, we are the same seed i see.
Nice to share the same branch with you,
As life we are always under construction
for ever branching outward from darkness toward the light...(progressive revelation)

I think consciousness is the one and only primal principle.

Life springs from the darkness of unconsciousness into the light of consciousness.

Awareness is beyond the two contrasts.

Unconsciousness / consciousness / and the awareness that is witness to both are all in-fact the same state.

This cycle is self perpetuating a self sustaining feedback loop.
Coming from nothing returning to nothing and being nothing in between.

Awareness is the key that unlocks the illusion.


For something to be contained there has to be an emptiness in which it can be contained.
The human mind cannot vision emptiness though, and this is because it sees fullness.
But here is the subtle part, that which see's the fullness is in-fact the emptiness.
So it gets tricky, because a reflection cannot know it is a reflection.
Does that make sense to you michael?


The illusion is very apparent to me now,
in that every-experience has to die in each nano second to make room and allow for new experience to appear.
Every flash of experience burst forth leaving the old behind using the old as a foundation platform allowing the new to enter.
Each branch of inspiration is preceded by it's former,
yet still holding onto the former as it's motivating security to move up higher.
There is the illusion of a dying or a leaving behind, but it is still tethered to it's original root.
The branching off of the tree illustrates this quite openly.

The base of the tree looks unlike the tips of the branches.
And yet they are connected.

If we take the parable of the ''mustard seed''
We know that from within the smallest of seeds can burst forth the largest of plants.
All the stored DNA /data within the tiny seed is completely and absolutely contained within ITself.
It is not outside of ITself.
Only becoming outside of ITself through it's reflection.

As the seed grows it branches out in all directions....as the branches stray further away from their original roots.
They may feel a disconnection not realizing that they are still connected to the main root.

Another thought came to me michael ...
The inner unseen roots of a tree completely mirror the outer appearance of the tree.
The branches are reflecting the roots.



No-thing can ever become separated from it's original primary source giver.
From source to source an endless spring.

I'm thinking that we are that tiny point of original consciousness, and within this tiny point of our consciousness lies an infinite of possibilities ....
just like the mustard seed analogy.

The seed had to die in order to bring forth more life.
And the life was a reflection of the seed.
That tiny point is still here now containing every-thing in it.
It has not moved an inch.
There is no such idea as small or large.
Reality is conceptual.
The conception is both tiny and very large simultaneously.

No-thing dies to allow No-thing to be born,
then the No-thing born then dies for the no-thing to be born again and so on it goes a never ending cycle round and round repeating.

That smells like eternal life for ONE via it's many permutations of itself.. to me michael.

Life is dying in each moment making way for new life to spring forth.
Within this matrix of death and renewal creation appears as the many, but it is only ever one.

Very very clever isn't it michael?

The reflection of god became self aware through the human mind.
The human mind now imagines itself to be a separate entity and that creates chaos.
The eternal battle between light and shadow ensues.

Any form of Resistance creates a disharmony.
while all the while nature just wants to bask in it's own wonderful glory of it's own creation of itself.

The reflection 'imagines itself' to be a separate entity,
I call it the '' rise of the machines ''
There can never be two realities ...
There can only be one reality ...only ONE can be real.

Does this make sense to you michael?

For instance... yesterday is only a concept, but yesterday has gone, all there is now is now, yesterday never really happened.
Yesterday is NOW held within our awareness of it.
A memory is only a belief, and a belief is past tense.
It is not real reality, real reality is only ever NOW.
When there is the belief that the experiences past are real ..conflict arises.
Because all we are doing here is boxing with shadows.

Oneness however can't have any conflict with itself.
For one very good reason.....
Yet, The reflection is needed for the WHOLE thing to work.

I also think that our brain got too big for a very good reason.
THAT is what we have to figure out.. that is why we are herenow... i think.
Think about it, we will have to die while in the flesh,and not just in physical death in order to live a wholesome existence.
We need to realize we are really the light and not just the shadow of the light.
We are both simultaneously.
And we can observe the light being an eternal constant.
We can observe the light as a constant .. and we can observe the shadows appearing and disappearing.
So in-effect we can know what is REAL and what isn't.


Let's hope we make good use of that big brains potential.
And remember what is in store for us as life.
Hopefully we will save ourselves just in time from a fate worse than death.

We are very very minute and at the same time we are larger than life.
We just need to re-member the ''mustard seed'' analogy.

When the fruit from the tree of knowledge was eaten.
From that moment on we had unknowingly separated ourself from source.
We are now unraveling through the tree of knowledge
back unto our absolute self again.
Always here and now...no-thing ever moves or changes.
All the data is already inherent within each seed.
Only through knowledge would unity be restored.
And we ARE IT.


Adam is male and female united as one.
Adam is the androgyne.
The birth of Eve is the fall of god and the illusory separation.
The parting of the primeval androgen in two beings, the male being separated from the female is the illusion.
Only through Her can Unity be attained.
Eat the Apple..The Fruit of Knowledge
Be transformed beyond..Good and evil.
The serpent was the trickster...
The Serpent is a symbol of God.. Wisdom
The Serpent is Eve.. God
The Serpent is the Eternal Feminine.. Cosmic womb
The Serpent is Kundalini
The Serpent is Woman

Let each us burrow for the root of evil that is within and root it up from his or her heart.

It will be rooted up when it is recognized.
Lack of acquaintance is the mother of all evils.
Lack of acquaintance will lead to death.

Whoever is really free because of knowledge is a servant because of love of those who have not yet been able to attain the freedom of knowledge.

Make firm the foot of those who have stumbled, and stretch out your hand to those who are ill.
Feed those who are hungry, and give rest to those who are weary.

Raise up those who wish to rise and awaken those who sleep.

If you live according to your human nature, you are going to die..
but if by the Spirit you put to death your sinful actions, you will live.

Egodeath is as if the dreamer awakens in the dream.

I used to function in death, then I died.
Now life alone is.
The true nature of ignorance is knowledge.


Thanks for the thread..
And so michael it's over to you...


Warm regards melanie.

[mkirkpatrick]

Well Melanie,what can I say? That last post was truly amazing,most grateful for your thoughtful and profound
response,thank you so much.

I suspect to that the primal principle is consciousness,
absolute consciousness,but I am open to other suggestions,is Absolute will the same as consciousness?

I to see only the eternal now,which opens up before us and
engulfs all.Our individual concepts of this now vary in accordance with our perceptions and depth of consciousness,with some now is very restictive,with others
it is an endless possibilty.

We as beings of energy and light are embodiments of this
principle,we are visible beacons of an inner invisible motioning force.

This "Isnessless" that we exhibit suggests manifold
diversity and differing principles at work,but this I feel
is a temporal mirage,an illusion conjured by shadows
cast within the physical matrix.

If we probe beneath this outer manifestation we see I
believe just that of a primal principle,which well could
be called consciousness.

tbc

regards michael.

[melanie]

I suspect to that the primal principle is consciousness,
absolute consciousness,
but I am open to other suggestions,
is Absolute will the same as consciousness?

Hi michael.

The Absolute is the silent eternal still emptiness of pure awareness.

Consciousness is on contact with awareness, when awareness knows sensation consciousness is born...( the knowing known )

Awareness aware_in of Itself both in ALL and I am.
The Tao say, without doing anything, leaves nothing undone.
It's all absolutely contained wholly within itself.

Consciousness is relative to awareness, awareness being absolute witness to infinite consciousness as finite form.

...emptiness is form...form is emptiness...

Pure absolute awareness/ infinite consciousness / finite consciousness .... ALL pervade each other.

Nisargadatta say that the AM is beyond the I
As the unknowing knowing known.

Who the knower is ..is unknown.. and yet clearly known.


What do you think michael?
regards melanie.

[mkirkpatrick]

Hi michael.

The Absolute is the silent eternal still emptiness of pure awareness.

Consciousness is on contact with awareness, when awareness knows sensation consciousness is born...( the knowing known )

Awareness aware_in of Itself both in ALL and I am.
The Tao say, without doing anything, leaves nothing undone.
It's all absolutely contained wholly within itself.

Consciousness is relative to awareness, awareness being absolute witness to infinite consciousness as finite form.

...emptiness is form...form is emptiness...

Pure absolute awareness/ infinite consciousness / finite consciousness .... ALL pervade each other.

Nisargadatta say the the AM is beyond the I
As the unknowing knowing known.

Who the knower is ..is unknown.. and yet clearly known.


What do you think michael?
regards melanie.

I think you are on the right track Melanie,it is impossible
to explain the unexplainable,but that does not stop you or I from trying! At the back,the ultimate back of all "our" appearances there lies the Absolute,which is the ultimate
Principle of all,LIFE itself!So what am I really saying here?
That the Absolute ITSelf is the primal principle,or that it
eminates from within it,expressed as consciousness?
What do you think Melanie?

regards michael.

[melanie]

I think you are on the right track Melanie,it is impossible
to explain the unexplainable,but that does not stop you or I from trying! At the back,the ultimate back of all "our" appearances there lies the Absolute,which is the ultimate
Principle of all,LIFE itself!So what am I really saying here?
That the Absolute ITSelf is the primal principle,or that it
eminates from within it,expressed as consciousness?
What do you think Melanie?

regards michael.

Hi michael.
I'll be back later with some more thoughts, meanwhile i'll leave you with this quote.

'' All beings are from the very beginning the Buddha.
It is like ice and water.
Apart from water no ice can exist,
Outside sentient beings, where do we seek the Buddha? ''


melanie.

[mkirkpatrick]

Hi michael.
I'll be back later with some more thoughts, meanwhile i'll leave you with this quote.

'' All beings are from the very beginning the Buddha.
It is like ice and water.
Apart from water no ice can exist,
Outside sentient beings, where do we seek the Buddha? ''


melanie.

Where else indeed! Thanks Melanie.There just IS!

regards michael.

[melanie]

Where else indeed! Thanks Melanie.There just IS!

regards michael.

Hi michael, just back with some more thoughts.
These words herenow, i have made them up ...here goes..

Consciousness is the expression the rider of the absolute will,
it is the intention carried out as motion upon the ocean of the absolute
Free will does not come from the consciousness, consciousness is the wave waving back to itself the ocean,
so consciousness cannot have independent freewill.
For who is there to have that will?
There is no object outside of the absolute being,
Awareness is what we are, as the effortless light of the world.
The comings and the goings within the absolute are not separate from the absolute....to think otherwise is just imagination or total illusion.

What do you think of that michael?

It's fun to try put the ineffable into words michael isn't it?

BBL

melanie.

[mkirkpatrick]

Hi michael, just back with some more thoughts.
These words herenow, i have made them up ...here goes..

Consciousness is the expression the rider of the absolute will,
it is the intention carried out as motion upon the ocean of the absolute
Free will does not come from the consciousness, consciousness is the wave waving back to itself the ocean,
so consciousness cannot have independent freewill.
For who is there to have that will?
There is no object outside of the absolute being,
Awareness is what we are, as the effortless light of the world.
The comings and the goings within the absolute are not separate from the absolute....to think otherwise is just imagination or total illusion.

What do you think of that michael?

It's fun to try put the ineffable into words michael isn't it?

BBL

melanie.

It is certainly a challenge Melanie,trying to describe the
indiscribable.

When "all is said and done" and you reach "base line reality"
then there is nought else existing except the Absolute.

We as beings have no level of existence in Absolute reality,
we do however have a measure of beingness here in the
temporal realm of a relative universe,temporal being understood as lasting billions of years!

I think we both are having a reasonable attempt at trying
to put across that which is both formless and timeless.

regards michael.

[AntonioLao]

What then is the primal principle?

The primal principle can be stated simply as the tendency toward dynamic equilibrium interactions of squares of energy as quanta of spacetime which can be called metaphysically as absolute consciousness.