[subversion]

Originally Posted by WithoutMe

Hell! If we take Godel seriously, then such a TOE will always contain certain impossible propositions, certain usolvable queries, certain unknown of fatcs, certain things which is always beyond our very perception of it... but after all this try, & the scientific community can rattle their brains of for the next 1million yrs, what we get is a gr8 sense of AWE!

Besides, why the need for this explanation? Aint the world already enough? & if we follow the Law of conservation of Energy, then we are never really creating anything, just that our very perception changes from one thing to another, whereas in all 'it is what it always is' -- so what to discover?

Yes, Godel was exactly correct with what he predicted. The TOE will prove that certain infinite contradictions are true (ummm and false at the same time). For example, it may be shown that an answer is the same as it's question. This pops up in certain languages, for example, in spanish, to answer the question por que, you can simply say, por que. That is because the word por que means both why and because. So the statement "por que" is simultaneously a question and it's own answer, which is a contradiction, but it contradicts it's own self, so it's ok. Another example is time. Depending on how you look at it, time is simultaneously eternal and instantaneous. Also, time is the only thing which is itself timeless. So is it time or isn't it? I'm not really sure to tell you the truth... it's both!

[WithoutMe]

Even if "one part mirrors the whole which forms another part" is not true, there would be no way to find out that, coz we are after all human, all too human.... one sees with one's own two eyes like what one sees a reflection of oneself; there simply is no way to go beyond being oneself & instead seeing things as they... infact by the very fact of seeing it, we are in-effect changing it, thus, what we observe is never the thing we think we observe.

So, even if its not recursive, we would know only those aspects of reality which confirm to our own existence (& hence becoming recursive), henceforth blocking all those aspects opf the universe which are "beyond" our very conditioning (conditioning as in genetic, social, psychological & all the rest of it)..... so, frankly speaking, it doesnt really matters what IT IS, what instead matters, as a pragmatic phenomenom, is what IT IS TO US..... that is our own relationship to it!!!

Relationships one realises; the thing-in-itself is simply as it is.... & i dont mean it exists & is beyond our senses, & I donot even mean that it doesnt exist, what I instead mean is that I DONOT KNOW, & frankly speaking, I dont have idea as to whether it can be known or not!

Can one live one's life with a very "dont know" mind, one that is not fixed by dogmas, prejudices, superstitions (even scientific superstitions), nouns, but one that is in a continual relationship to oneself & one's surrounding? A mind that is not fixed on any thing, be it an idea, a theory, a notion, a belief, a school of thought..... can one be like water, always flowing from one relationship to another, & not finding anything fixed in all this? Can one have a total "dont know" state without even wanting to know that one doesnt knows?

Is there a possibility? No way of knowing it, without being it!!!

Regards,
wM.

[harmonygirl]

Interesting idea, WM, isn't this the state of emptiness that some schools of eastern thought think is desirable? The idea of no-thing and being no-thing sounds very similar to your paragraph describing how one can be water...

[WithoutMe]

Doesnt matter as to whether its eastern, western, northern or southern.... doing that will comparing to somthing & that owuld be going away from the "dont know" state.... Can we just be in this state of "dont know" & not even want to know anything, that is not compare or equate or any such thng?

[harmonygirl]

Ideally we would be. Unfortunately, I am very far away from that state!

[WithoutMe]

Positing an "ideal" state as distinguished from an "actual" state will in turn be going away from it....lol!