[nzo nelson]

Ill start by saying Im old and have been mulling these things over for quite a few years, in which time the ground work, the fundamentals have changed and mutated, and the information behind them, also. My particular bent as of this moment is the manner in which we humans transfer semiotic incoming stimuli into cogent "facts" and "data", and the bench marks of meaning and intent as they vary from one to another.... Also , behind this is the fact that we accept a broad and changeable foundation in our early years which cannot
be said to have verifiable scientific purpose built in. In fact I believe there are far too many true unknowns, we all assume along the way, in action. We all are functioning under the program Life.2, and have for millennium, having forgotten the feelings before language and named days and linear time as the new arbiter of hierarchy versus the the instinct laden manifestation. We also tend to believe that which we believe to be the 'truth', awful mistake that it is, and all making it repeatedly. This makes what we all can agree upon a much finer line and careful thought.

[KiGs]

Welcome NZO, I am mulling over similar thoughts in my head as well. Although I am more focused on memory rather than thought.

Originally Posted by nzo nelson My particular bent as of this moment is the manner in which we humans transfer semiotic incoming stimuli into cogent "facts" and "data"

Good luck with that! And I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

[mkirkpatrick]

Welcome nzo nelson,send you greetings from the UK and Turkey my new home,the nature of truth is to "embody a principle and make it tangible"we are the embodiment
of truth,look within the enclothed principle (mind and body)and there you will find truth
"intangible"!




regards michael.

[nzo nelson]

to continue- and I find it difficult to navigate the TOE ARCHITECTURE- ( my
limitations) I believe that the nature of language, memory and perceptions have left us with only a history of consciousness, and therefore the vagaries of expression are both largely allegorical and subjective and do not truly express our understanding of our observations of linear time passing by. In fact, being habituated to the imposition of linear time by the very subjective force of the "economic" system which now dominates the thinking on earth, which could be roughly be equated to early scientists believing life came from merde, leaves very little time for cognitive evolution. We know that there are dimensions of energy proliferating about us that are effectively sealed off due to the addiction to taste and hierarchy and "value" which has nothing to do with understanding and optimum usage. To carry on from here requires that we truly understand the nature of our own perceptions in correlation to the popular information, and with many of the TOE people, more sophisticated information. Occam's razor is not an especially scientific concept and resounds like a babysitter shushing a child. Some of the developed understandings in science are more complex than even a generation ago could grasp.....not the simplest way out of knowing.
World problems are basically grounded in these limitations of thought, or
symptoms of the two tiered social system which limits true progress and potentialities in life. The universe is not an economic opportunity.

[MJA]

Welcome to TOE NZO,
Are you related to Ferrari?

I like what you have to say, The limitations of thought, language, measure, perception, science, complexity that you speak of are the confines that keep one from the liberty of truth. Truth is more simple than thought, perhaps you might try to go there. Walk outside today and rather than judge nature, be nature, be One. The oneness of nature is the simplist truth of all. And as Occam believed, why would one need to look futher than the simplist of nature's truth.


The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained to liberation from the self. Albert Einstien


Freedom of self leads to Oneself, and that Oneself is nature's simple truth of the Universe called TOE.

=
MJA

[bottomlander]

Originally Posted by MJA Welcome to TOE NZO, And as Occam believed, why would one need to look further than the simplist of nature's truth. = MJA

Dear MJA,

You oversimplified Occam's Razor, please view more reliable sources upon that.

2,500 years ago, Heraclitus (an ancient Greek) already promoted "one out of all and all out from one."
Yet he looked further to theorize Fire (as the energy) for one.
And human needs to look further to progress.
Why you like the progress to stop by "why would one need to look further than the simplest of nature's truth"?


Best Regards. Bottomlander

[MJA]

"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." Occam's Razor

[bottomlander]

Originally Posted by MJA "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." Occam's Razor

I would like to propose a counter-sample for "is" the best.
1Km/sec + 1km/sec (for the same object along same direction) = ?
the simplest solution is 2km/sec in classical physics but incorrect in special relativity.

So, Occam's Razor suggests "is often the best" or "likely the best" against the rivals.
1) It depends on "all other things (or the environment) remain the same or not;
2) Once something changed, or in different environments, the solution may be adjusted also;

3) The most important caution/conclusion is: the best solution ≠ the ultimate solution ≠ the final solution ≠ the practical solution ≠ the only solution and may be ≠ the correct solution.

The simplest/easiest solution ≠ TOE.
The trickiest solution ≠ TOE.
TOE does not end like this!


Best Regards. Bottomlander

[Mikal]

Originally Posted by nzo nelson to continue- and I find it difficult to navigate the TOE ARCHITECTURE- ( my limitations) I believe that the nature of language, memory and perceptions have left us with only a history of consciousness, and therefore the vagaries of expression are both largely allegorical and subjective and do not truly express our understanding of our observations of linear time passing by. In fact, being habituated to the imposition of linear time by the very subjective force of the "economic" system which now dominates the thinking on earth, which could be roughly be equated to early scientists believing life came from merde, leaves very little time for cognitive evolution. We know that there are dimensions of energy proliferating about us that are effectively sealed off due to the addiction to taste and hierarchy and "value" which has nothing to do with understanding and optimum usage. To carry on from here requires that we truly understand the nature of our own perceptions in correlation to the popular information, and with many of the TOE people, more sophisticated information. Occam's razor is not an especially scientific concept and resounds like a babysitter shushing a child. Some of the developed understandings in science are more complex than even a generation ago could grasp.....not the simplest way out of knowing. World problems are basically grounded in these limitations of thought, or symptoms of the two tiered social system which limits true progress and potentialities in life. The universe is not an economic opportunity.

Hi NZO..welcome to Toequest...this is a thought provoking thread you have started. I read through the posts and clearly in my mind were two words, "cognitive evolution"...I wondered when did mine begin..mulled that over and clearly remembered what could have only been a small step to begin.
When I was a child only 6 my parents began to prepare me for school, they told me, nuns will teach you and you must be good because they are a little like "holy representations" in life. I had loving parents...bless them both.
I realize their words had transferred into a beginning belief...we tend to value our beliefs...with blind faith as a child we believe the message and the messenger.
So I go to school...encountered a Nun who more I think misunderstood me than disliked me. I daydreamed alot in school so was not the most attentive child to my outer expanding environment. I guess I missed play. This nun began to beat me every day...I knew that strap from its tip to its handle. You don't tell mom and dad...YOUR BAD..then. In my small child way...I would sit at night and measure the juxtipostion between holy and hatred...they conflicted terribly...my cognitive evolution had begun. The thought...I have met a lie...the experience..expression of love versus expression of hatred. What did I sense....this doesn't make sense, better stop daydreaming and pay attention.
I did not know then..but I had just taken my first step to rise and grasp the progress to my own potentials.


peace Mikal