[unified8]

I know I haven't fully introduced myself... Hi! everyone in their "toe's"! Maybe any of you have thought of this before, the thing that I was thinking for almost 20 years now as a living creature in this wonderful planet earth. Have you thought of our "thoguhts" as matters as in by definiton, one that occupies space and has weight. Of course no doubt, our thoughts occupy spce in our mind, right? But I wonder about if it has weight?

Hey, I am a believer of metaphysics, and I think their are purer matters that are not tangible nor can be seen by our naked eyes. I can see it is difficult to understand even my "thought-matter theory", unless one appreciates the merging "string theory".

Hey guys! What do you think about my query? Is it worth discussing?

By professioin, I am just a teacher of English, by I like science and Philosophy so much that I want to be a part of an active discovering intelligences in the universe.


Ni hao ma!, Mabuhay!, Shalom!, and Aloha! to everyone.


Warm regards,

Unified8

[Guille]

Hi, welcome to toe quest I hope you get on well with the forums.

First, the definition of matter in dictionaries is NOT valid in science. "something that has mass and occupies space" is a very simple general not-defining defintion. By the way, it is mass, not weight (since newton weight is just defined by gravity's force).

Secondly, our mind does (in my opinion) does NOT occupy space, it is just the thinking of the brain (which DOES occupy space). But the thoughts in essence don't occupy space. And even less, have mass. The electrci charges are information, the activity of these ones, is the thought process.

I recomend you to be there for the next chat session on "Ghost in the Machine" mind-brain problem, look more info at http://www.toequest.com/forum/showth...=3850#post3850

Good luck,

Guille.

[unified8]

Hi Guille,

So sorry to tell you that your explanation to me is very shallow. Let me explain, when I think of "human thought" as a matter, I mean it as a another kind of matter which I am afraid you are not ready to understand. Your analysis to my theory is still based from other's thought, i.e. Newton's idea of weight. Can you not think of yourself please? I need original outputs to dicuss with me, ok? Now, back to my other kind of matter, I called this "purer matter", why because it has its own property and one of those properties is to be able to act upon other matters, such as air or gas, and other liquids. For example when we are yet alive, all the gaseous and liquid elements found in our bodies were actively moving to and fro because of this kind of matter which actually governing the orderly movements of the body. While when we are dead, no more movements whatsoever, or you call that "no pulse beat", right? You know why? Simply because those "purer matters" moved or shifted to another dimension, exactly the same dimension spoken of by the "stringists". In other words, they ceased to govern when the "impure matters" so to speak or the compositions of our bodies, elements, molecules, atoms, and the like are naturally or unnaturally destroyed. This means that they are the purer matters, because their duty is to maintain an olderly "impure or course matters" in this world.
The electric charge you so clearly explained with regard to the "thoughts" is actually one kind of pure matter, for their are lots of "purer matters" that exist here. Some folks call it "ghosts" or "spirits". But I don't actually buy the idea of "ghosts in the machine" because these pure matters only activates on every living creature or something that has life or living cell in it, get it?

Anyway, thanks for your prompt reaction to my novice thoughts about "thought as a matter", ooooppppsss, not the matter that we knew nor the "dictionary", well I like your subtle style to discourage someone to think that "thoughts" are in itself matter.


Very impressed,

unified8

[Guille]

Originally Posted by unified8 Hi Guille, So sorry to tell you that your explanation to me is very shallow. Let me explain, when I think of "human thought" as a matter, I mean it as a another kind of matter which I am afraid you are not ready to understand.

My explanation of what? Well, you should have previouslly explained that you were refering to a different kind of matter. By the way, I think I am ready to understand that matter. You don't know about me so you can't say if I can or not. Don't judge people by their first appearence.

Originally Posted by unified8 Your analysis to my theory is still based from other's thought, i.e. Newton's idea of weight. Can you not think of yourself please? I need original outputs to dicuss with me, ok?

I did not analyze your theory in any way, specially because you didn't present it. All I know about your theory is the human thought being material. I didn't analize your theory from Newton's point of view, I just wanted to tell you because you had been using the word weight, but you should actually use the word mass because if not, it would mean that when astronauts go to outer space they have no thoughts. I think I do and can think by myself, and that I have quite higher capacity to think by myslef not only than people of my age but even of many many adults. And I am original.

But let's not discuss this more because my capacity does not have to do with TOE quest or the theme and is irrelevant and personal.

Originally Posted by unified8 Now, back to my other kind of matter, I called this "purer matter", why because it has its own property and one of those properties is to be able to act upon other matters, such as air or gas, and other liquids.

I understand this. Do you think this purer matter can be sort of un-structured matter? Like sort of aether?

Originally Posted by unified8 Simply because those "purer matters" moved or shifted to another dimension, exactly the same dimension spoken of by the "stringists".

String theorists don't discuss thoughts. The extra dimensions of stirng theory are supposed to be squashed, planck legth sort of size. According yto your theory, can thoughts be re-collected after going into another dimension? Does time pass for thoughts?

Originally Posted by unified8 The electric charge you so clearly explained with regard to the "thoughts" is actually one kind of pure matter, for their are lots of "purer matters" that exist here. Some folks call it "ghosts" or "spirits". But I don't actually buy the idea of "ghosts in the machine" because these pure matters only activates on every living creature or something that has life or living cell in it, get it?

I also don't like the idea of ghosts or ghost in the machine. I do get it.

Originally Posted by unified8 Anyway, thanks for your prompt reaction to my novice thoughts about "thought as a matter", ooooppppsss, not the matter that we knew nor the "dictionary", well I like your subtle style to discourage someone to think that "thoughts" are in itself matter.

I did not have a prompt reaction, it is only that just stating thoughts are matter is a very direct statement. It is better if you try to make people get to know about your theories in a derived way, from things they do understand and think and agree. Again, I don't like the dictionaries' definition of matter, or of nothing studied in physics (and other sciences). I don't try to discourage people from believing in your theory, I justm gave the definition of dictionaries and what I think, and it is because I don't see thoughts as material but as activity. Also, before me wanting to discourage people,people would ahve need to already think your theory to be correct, but there was still not time for that because not many people had read your post before I did.

Originally Posted by unified8 very impressed, unified8

Very impressed for what? In the begining of the post you state that I should think by myself and it is sort of deception, and now you are very impressed?! It seems you are a fast mood-changeing person (no problem).

[David Maes]

Hello, allow me to introduce myself. My name is David Maes. I live in Belgium and I'm interested in science and filosophical issues...

I know that a brain is builded from a lot of neurons. Neurons are microscopic
litlle cells. (every cell is a unit of live). Now, these cells communicate on a
chemical way using 'neurotransmittors'. By using ions (these as electric
charges) and in a chemical way, I think thoughts are being created.

You have to know thats there a millions and millions of connections in a brain...
But these connections of microscopic little...

So I don't THINK we have a "ghost". I think thoughts and feelings are pure chemical reactions. (Of course... I'm not really sure of this)
I think our brain is like some kind of microscopic artificial intelligence or millions
of microscopic little 'nanocomputers'... (like cells for example...)

Of course, I believe there is some kind of 'force' which has created everything out of nothing... (Else there would'nt be anything, right?)

But I'm still douting wether I have of ghost or not, because...

Why am I me and not somebody else???

Of course, I thinks thoughts and feelings itselves can be explaned by chemical reactions. Are do we have a ghost influencing these chemicals?????

I believe that in a near futur, computers will have conscienceness and feelings. The only problem they have is they do not work parallel.


Then, ions exchange elektrons, which can be interpretated as energy or as little units of mass (but very little). It's not the mass, that creates the thoughts, I thinks its rather, the sorting of this microscopic little mass...

Also, you know what Einstein said... Mass can be interpretated as 'frozen energy' so... Mass doesn't really exist anyway. Mass is energy. The whole universe is sorted forms of energy. The illusion of 'mass' is created by the perception of our brain, I think. Our brain (which is a sorted combination of chemical energy) recieves energy of its environnement and interpretates it al mass.
Because evolution has made brains with only one purpose; to survive as long as possible and to reproduce its genes... I think 'God' wants to create something that will live for ever; he's doing it by evolution.

[Guille]

Hi david, welcome.

I think you are correct to believe that there is no ghost, so do I. The problem of this kind of themes is that each person decides for his/her self what is concept and what is (at least I give it this name) meta-concept; what has perception and thus, is possible toexist in the real physical world.

Now, about the "force" that started everything, what is your theory about how the force could be there before everything? (because the force is something, and thus, part of everything).

[David Maes]

First of all, I don't think the force is part of everything. I rather think, everything is part of the force...

I even rather think the force IS everything.

You know what Einstein said; mass is energy. Now, you can of course distroy mass; and even if you don't, it gets distroyed after a while, this is the direction of time (it's much easier to scramble an egg than to unscramble it).

The strange thing is, how can you distroy energy??? You can transform kinds of energy into other kinds; but you cannot distroy it.
So, matter is getting older, but energy not. It's just the sorting of energy which is getting older. I think this energy (which you can't destroy) IS the force 'itself'. I think 'the force' or 'God' (or name it like you want) is fluing right through us (while we are eating and breathing for example), and we don't even see it, because the perception of our brain is interpretating it as matter; because our brain takes an average of all information which comes in in our brain; and I believe this information is subjective. How can we ever prove anything, if we always have to perceive it first? Because what we perceive is created by the received information; but also by our brain itself!!

Now... a very important question (but very difficult to answer)...



Imagen there is no God, or there is no force...

First there was nothing; only empty space; eternall blackness....

Suddenly, in this nothing, there is starting to exist a little pingpongball of very hot energy.
Now, my logical question and conclusion is; where the hell does it come from? How can there start to exist suddenly anything out of totally nothing????
I think this is logically impossible.

Secundly even if there would be no force; imagening that there suddenly would start to exist something out of nothing (which is impossible) from itself...
If there is no force and if there aren't any ghosts; this means that actually the existence of live has no purpose (because eventually we die!). If it has no purpose; than why is it there???

Than it just wouldn't be there; I think then there would be nothing.

Of course there is a huge difference between the purpose we THINK live has; and the real purpose (which I don't know). In my opinion I think it even doesn't have a purpose. (of course this is MY opinion) Maybe the force creates live because the force is just like that, maybe its just its nature!; the force doesn't need a purpose... It think the word "purpose" is something created by the human brain.

The force doesn't think, it doesn't feel... Only a brain can do that.

I also think the force has NOT been there BEFORE everything.
You know what I think about energy... Only matter is getting older.
I think energy (the potential of doing labor) is not influenced by time; you can't distroy it... it's not getting older...

For us it just has a constant speed (whether you are moving towards it or moving away from it), the speed of light. But we cannot touch light.
When you cross two beams of light (for example two laserbeams), than they don't change direction. Only matter changes direction!

I also believe that the word "before" only exists in the human brain. I think this is just a part of the way humans perceive their world; they feel 'the passage of time'. I think this is only the way that the brain is sorting incoming information... Because eventually everything we PERCEIVE has a direction (it's getting older)... The only question is does this direction really exist in nature; or is it just the direction we use to do perceptions...?
Because we don't have this perception with energy. What could be more like a god than something which never dies?? Something which you can't distroy?

So, what I mean is, I think time does not exist (Einstein believed it also). I think time is just something created in our brain to sort incoming information.
Of course, I cannot prove this, because everything we perceive is influenced by time.
The only reason we experience time, is to prevent we would see everything happen at the same time.

Imagen a world where nothing happens, a world without time, a world where everything is standing still (It's like you're looking to a video and you pushed the pause-button). I think this is the world 'the force' is perceiving; a world where everything happens at the same time...

So it's not necessary he was there BEFORE everything; he is undistroyable. He has always been there, and he allways will be there. He creates all time and all space and everything in one moment.


I even believe that SPACE is a creation of the brain (the brain is sorted energy). Our brain is experiencing space and distances...! But this doesn't prove the existance of space!! Maybe again it's a way of perceiving incoming information by the brain! Using 'space'. So I don't think "the force" needs space... I think "space" is just a word, a signification our brain gives to the world. I believe the perceived world indeed sometimes "meets" the real world... But I know there is a huge difference between the perceived world and the real world!!!!!!!

Maybe this is the cause of all the problems we have to interpretate quantummechanics... Because we try to understand it with our brain, but this is impossible; nobody can understand quantummechanics; no one can be told what "the matrix" is.....
We are trying to understand quantummechanics by using time and distance; but I think these things simply do not exist...
May it's like the purpose of live.... does it really have a purpose? Does it really have a signification? Or is it just our brain that gives a signification to live???????

(Of course, this is just filosophie; I mean... don't take it personal; enjoy your live and make the best of it; I'm just like everybody, I wanna know the truth).

Descartes ones said; "I think, so I am"......

PS:
I don't think the "ghost" is a possession of us alone, I think it's just everywhere!!!!!!!!!!

PS:


Another thing....

You're thinking very logically. You said the force is something and something is always a part of everything. That's right.

But... Imagen that 'everything' only contains two things: the force and nothing.

And imagen that this one thing; the force; CONTAINS everything else...(except nothing)!... Imagen it contains also time!... Imagen that outside the force time does not exist!... Because time is also a thing...

However... You're right the force is always a part of everything. But is nothing a thing???? No, it's NO-THING.

You could say that 'everything else besides the force' is a part of the force or you could say that the force is a part of everything.

But it's still possible that there is only ONE thing. It's still possible that everything we are or everthing we percieve is a part OF the force.

So you can discuss the fact that the force is a part of everything by saying that everything is only one thing, which contains 'everything else except the force.'

PS :

Nothing is a thing also... because 'nothing' is the signification our brain gives to nothing. But nothing doesn't have to be a thing.

Indeed, you are very analytical and very realistic.

With respect,
David.

[dleviwing]

David;
Welcome to TOEquest.

You seem to have the illusion that energy can exist independent of matter. Like many this is a misunderstanding of the term "mass" which is the measurement of the inertial property of matter. (resistance to the change of motion)

Without matter there is nothing to move to create the function energy. Thus you cannot destroy anything that exists (matter, motion, nor energy). You can only change the state of matter's motion and this change represents one form of "energy".

Mass and energy are interchangeable only due to the fact that mass is a measure of the potential energy or the quantity of motion that is possible to be changed to another form of motion.
Best regards;
dleviwing (Dave)

[David Maes]

Thanks a lot for your comments!! What you say is very correct!!

I learned a lot with them...

I got to think about them...

But what about waves?

Isn't a wave the opposite of a partical??

MESSAGE TO DLEVIWING (Dave)


I would ask you a faver...

Could you read my interpretations of 'How does it feel to not exist' and tell me which ones have THE POTENTIAL of being right and which ones don't (of course they could be all wrong as well...;just a question)

(Cause you had an academic education (I didn't) and you always give very smart answers)

Greetings

[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by David Maes MESSAGE TO DLEVIWING (Dave) I would ask you a faver... Could you read my interpretations of 'How does it feel to not exist' and tell me which ones have THE POTENTIAL of being right and which ones don't (of course they could be all wrong as well...;just a question) (Cause you had an academic education (I didn't) and you always give very smart answers) Greetings

Hi David;
I don't subscribe to this thread so I only came across your post to me by browsing.
I was unable to determine what it is you are asking me to evaluate. Your posts are rather chaotic to follow. If you direct me to the Post # I'll see what I can do.

To your other question:
Waves and particles are not opposites though some people do view energy and matter as opposites; this too is false.

Academic institutions are not the only source for knowledge. As long as you can read and have access to the books or the internet, you can acquire knowledge.

dleviwing