The randomness of Evolution

[mkirkpatrick]

As we are self-conscious individuals and able to reflect on our being,it is inevitable that we
will ask questions about who,what.where,and why,to see patterns,even if they appear
random,and wonder what if any significance we can put on this.Our egos seem to crave
importance,we must be special,suggests the ego?

As we are intelligent,and use this to probe deeply into the evolutionary cycle,we seem to
see an intelligent pattern emerging!Well some will,I suppose just see really neat patterns
but just attribute this to pure randomness and chance outworkings of some chaotic events
over millions of years.


regards michael.

[yogi]

Hi All,
I read the word Randomness and i therefore elaborate on that-
first of all as the science says - molecules in the alphabets of these words are in random motion- but this sentence still make sense to the reader.This is the evidence which proves that randomness or organization is a phenomena of mind. Any organism is made of hydrocarbon- fundamntal particles of which can only be randomly located ( precise location is not possible), this also is applicable to strings. organism still makes an impression on the observer and the observer can also decipher whether the organism is living or non living. Observer's mind is the key element which makes random events in to a cohesive and personal reality. Randomness or organization is the speculation of localized mind, under universal conscious mind all probabilities and possibilities are inclusive.

sincerely,
yogi

[mkirkpatrick]

Again welcome Yogi to the league.Evolution seems to keep all its charges in super trim,
anything thats not used too often is removed,I remember a question that was asked of
me many years ago now,when I was inquiring to some esoteric teachings that i had heard
of,the question was to "consider the plight of the parasite",in that question is the answer to much of our inquiries!
There is one such parasite that seems to be all stomach,and not much else!One wonders
what more can evolution strip from this creature,that will leave its integrity intact?


regards michael.

[Infinite Consciousness]

Re Evolution

Life killing and eating other life is uncontrolled random evolution "outside" - it is the "law of the Jungle" created by the universal mind and expressed through our human thought processes.

Involution is the process of information and growth of spirit "inside" that takes us beyond the control of the universal mind and its thinking and frees us to evolve spiritually.

Evolution is only random - if and when - we allow it to control - manipulate - and imprison us.

Evolution involves the outer aspect of the atom or soul manifesting as thought word and deed. Involution involves the inner aspect of the atom or soul as spirit beyond all expression of - thought - word - and deed.

[baudrunner]

Involution is the process of information and growth of spirit "inside" that takes us beyond the control of the universal mind and its thinking and frees us to evolve spiritually.

Well now, no it isn't.

There you go again infiniteconsciousness. It appears that I have caught you in the act of talking off the top of your head again, because you have revealed here that you have your own interpretation of the truth, and yet you disparage those who have science and evidence to tell you otherwise.

Here are the accepted definitions of involution:

in·vo·lu·tion (nv-lshn)
n. 1. a. The act of involving.
b. The state of being involved.

2. Intricacy; complexity.
3. Something, such as a long grammatical construction, that is intricate or complex.
4. Mathematics An operation, such as negation, which, when applied to itself, returns the original number.
5. Embryology The ingrowth and curling inward of a group of cells, as in the formation of a gastrula from a blastula.
6. Medicine a. A decrease in size of an organ, as of the uterus following childbirth.
b. A progressive decline or degeneration of normal physiological functioning occurring as a result of the aging process.


Please stop making things up. As I have said before, we take science seriously here.

[mkirkpatrick]

It seems to me that random or not we are all caught up within the embrace of evolution.
which seems to be unfolding in some sort of sequential lawful way,I say lawful because it
appears very much so to me,that evolution is part of the universal natural laws.

Another prehaps assumption we have with the understanding of evolution is that it seems
to just apply to the earth! Which of course it does not,the whole universe is evolving,into
what one may ask?


If evolution is progressing under natural law,as I believe it is,then it should be possible
to look ahead at the unfolding sequence and predict where it will lead?


regards michael.

[baudrunner]

If evolution is progressing under natural law,as I believe it is,then it should be possible to look ahead at the unfolding sequence and predict where it will lead?

That's interesting, because it's true. Only thing is, we might be headed either toward a Utopia, or the eventual destruction of all mankind, and by our own hands. So any one equation is as valid as any other if it tells us what is going to happen. The same goes for creation. This localized part of the Universe might have a completely different outcome than the one twenty billion years ago, and only because of some random events that got in the way of it.

[mkirkpatrick]

Good points you made there Baud,what are we heading for,Utopia or destruction?Well if
we go by past "history" we have had both a "golden age" and of course the great flood
with dear old Noah and his arc.
So it is anybodies guess as to this next outcome!Although with global warming,seemingly
getting worse,the latter seems more likely.

The localised point you made Baud,I think important to just this planet,and not universally
in point the impacts of meteors and asteroids,which are thought to have caused the
extinction of the dinosaurs,this had a profound effect on all life on earth at the time,and
apparently opened up the way for mammals to grow and expand.

regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

Evolution to me seems very much to be a universal law,if that is so,then can it also be
random,well I believe that it can,underlying the motion to evolve is the great law,but I
think that the random element is that such as the impact of asteroids and meteors,earthquakes,and volcanos,these are for me the random elements that run
simultaneously along with the law.And bring about the diversity and also the end of some
species such as the dinosaurs.


regards michael.

[Graybeard]

Evolution to me seems very much to be a universal law,if that is so,then can it also be random,well I believe that it can.

Underlying the motion to evolve is the great law,but I
think that the random element is that such as the impact of asteroids and meteors,earthquakes,and volcanos,these are for me the random elements that run simultaneously along with the law.And bring about the diversity and also the end of some species such as the dinosaurs.

regards michael.

Michael ... I agree with you here. Evolution ... once accepted as a process here on earth ... it must follow that it is a process throughout the Universe. Perhaps we should have referred to it in this thread as 'Cosmic Evolution' or 'Universal Evolution'.

However the randomness I am referring to is not individual events but the overall interaction of energy and matter.

If you were to pour water into a drum of sand, the water would find its way thru to the bottom following the path of least resistance. Does the randomness of this path, can the randomness of this path, explain all of cosmic evolution including ourselves, including this discussion ??

If so, does it follow that 'Consciousness' is part of this 'path of least resistance' ??

What 'Natural Selection' advantage does consciousness offer ??

Or is the 'randomness' such that it doesn't matter about any details on the path of least resistance .... that is, any path will end at the same destination. If this is true then there can not be any 'Intelligent Design' !!

My thoughts only .... greg