The randomness of Evolution

[Infinite Consciousness]

Graybeard,

Re The problem with Natural Selection or Evolution;

(A) In being the doer i.e. our awareness as the content of our consciousness is identifying with and functioning through the mind its thinking and the material world and because of this we are subject to the inexorable "Law of Karma" wherein every thought - every word - and every deed - is Karma because we are acting as the doer and as long as we are the doer we are subject to the Law of Karma.

(B) Whereas we are through Natural Selection or Evolution continually creating more Karma with our every thought - word - and deed - we can never catch up and escape Karma and its effects - which keeps us imprisoned on the wheel of life (in repetitive creations as animated picture shows) which gets its momentum from the energy of Karma.

(C) We will never escape this animated picture show of repetitive creation unless and until we stop feeding energy to the "Wheel of Life" from the Karmic energy that we are producing with our every - thought - word - and deed.

(D) It is only by reconnecting our awareness as the content of our consciousness back with its source the soul within us that we realize and merge in the Infinite consciousness that we in truth are. Self knowledge precedes God knowledge !

Re The problem with science and scientists;

(A) Science = knowledge of general facts, laws and relationships that is obtained through systematic observations and experiment, especially as applied to the physical-material world and the phenomena associated with it. The scientist and the science they practice is focused on matter as the substance of the material world; the opposite of mind or spirit. As a consequence scientists and the science they practice is based solely on materialism and materialism as has been shown in these forums is pseudo or false science.

(b) Materialism as science obviously involves the awareness (of the scientist) as the content of their consciousness being not only in outer expression but only examining whatever exists in that outer expression. This expression of awareness into and only involved with outer manifestation can never know or even begin to know the reality within until the awareness is returned to its source the Infinite Consciousness within. The Truth of consciousness is beyond all expression and is only realized when we return our awareness from without to within. This is done by the Science of Spirituality whereby we reconnect our awareness back to its source.

The enlightenment spoken of here has been available to man from the dawn of time always has been and always will be. Man was in that enlightenment in the "Garden of Eden" until he was expelled for his disobedience. By the way it was Newton who compared his knowledge to the picking up of pebbles on the sea shore of life.

Re my experience with Infinite Consciousness - through meditation (i.e. concentration) in the eye-focus i was able to reconnect my awareness as the content of my consciousness - from its outer expression - back to its source the soul or consciousness within me - and i then experienced Infinite awareness of my Self as a Pure Spirit independent of and separate from the physical body and realized that the Infinite Spirit that i was experiencing is the life at the core of and controlling all existence and i was one with it.

In this state which lasted a whole day i was experiencing something that i had always wondered about i.e. the quote in the Bible about "The Peace that Passeth All Understanding" this is what i was experiencing and there are no words to explain this exquisite feeling of wave after wave of intoxicating bliss that was enveloping me because it " Passeth All Human Understanding." I am able to go into this state every so often through meditation and look forward to when it becomes the continuous state that is mine and every one else's "True Self."

What i am establishing is that science as materialism is false that it is not even science and that the science of consciousness is the only valid science that resolves humanities problem re its imprisonment in matter and the needless suffering that imprisonment is causing.

Can you see it ? ? ? ? ?

[Graybeard]

I totally agree with you here Greg; but which science are we talking about? The one that matters most to me is; the esoteric sciences of the east, the Bhagavad Gita, occult science, Gnani Yoga, the yoga of science, mind, and wisdom. Or do you mean,that thing that operates today, and is called somewhat hesitantly science?

There is a link going back into the far distant past,much knowledge was lost in the great library at Istanbul formally Constantinople, which was raised to the ground in about 324ad.

Michael .... the one I am talking about is the one you call somewhat hesitantly Science..... I think the great fire in the library of Alexander was in the the City of Alexandria in Egypt. But I may be wrong. Not much was saved from that fire ... The index of the Library was saved. The index lists over sixty manuscripts written by Democritus ... as well there are some fragments of these manuscripts. Democritus is the father of the atom (atomos .. the smallest one). His theory (a fragment) says that "nothing exists in this Universe except Atomos (particles) and the Void. Everything else is chance."

Not bad for the first Scientist ... who had no experimental equipment at all. Are there echoes of Quantum mechanics here.

The index contains no reference to Atlantis.

In your words 'much knowledge was lost in the great library'. That lost knowledge would appear to have been the birth of 'that thing that operates today, and is called somewhat hesitantly science'.

So what are you lamenting .... ???

Infinite C .... please allow me some time to read between the lines of your post so that I can attempt to baffle you with Science. Like I have just done with Michael.

no offence to either ... IC really do need time to contemplate your post ... back soon

greg

[Graybeard]

Infinite Conscious ... What is 'the law of Karma' . Is there a Definition?

Ta! ... greg

[mkirkpatrick]

Infinite Conscious ... What is 'the law of Karma' . Is there a Definition?

Ta! ... greg

You are correct Greg the Great library was in Egypt,my mistake,sorry.



regards michael.

[Infinite Consciousness]

Michael .... the one I am talking about is the one you call somewhat hesitantly Science..... I think the great fire in the library of Alexander was in the the City of Alexandria in Egypt. But I may be wrong. Not much was saved from that fire ... The index of the Library was saved. The index lists over sixty manuscripts written by Democritus ... as well there are some fragments of these manuscripts. Democritus is the father of the atom (atomos .. the smallest one). His theory (a fragment) says that "nothing exists in this Universe except Atomos (particles) and the Void. Everything else is chance."

Not bad for the first Scientist ... who had no experimental equipment at all. Are there echoes of Quantum mechanics here.

The index contains no reference to Atlantis.

In your words 'much knowledge was lost in the great library'. That lost knowledge would appear to have been the birth of 'that thing that operates today, and is called somewhat hesitantly science'.

So what are you lamenting .... ???

Infinite C .... please allow me some time to read between the lines of your post so that I can attempt to baffle you with Science. Like I have just done with Michael.

no offence to either ... IC really do need time to contemplate your post ... back soon

greg

Graybeard, read my post on "Materialism As An Absolute" and then tell me that you are going to attempt to baffle me with science ? Either you will not understand what is established there or you will choose not to accept what is established there because it does not conform to your beliefs. The third option is that you see the truth of what is presented there and understand the falseness of material science. All science based on materialism as the fundamental reality of our universe is False ! ! ! ! !

Obviously what we need to do here at ToeQuest in order to uncover the T.O.E. is to identify with the conscious awareness that is behind - and establishes as fact - whatever belief we are consciously expressing - and to stop identifying with empty belief devoid of any awareness and consisting of nothing more than theory. Then and only then will we uncover the Truth of Everything !

[mkirkpatrick]

To us as observers evolution is both local,ie;this planet earth,and also universal,we are caught up in the wake of this mighty current that sweeps us ever onward,we have lived
and had our being through many kingdoms,mineral,vegetable,and animal,we are now
on the verge of a major conjunction where,in particular westeners,will discover the
reality of the human soul.

This is the next really major step in the spiritual evolution on mankind,it will become
within the next 20 years a "quantum leap" in consciousness and understanding of the
true nature nature on mankind.

The next major kingdom for mankind to explore and be conscious of is the "kingdom of
souls",this logically follows the evolutionary path that mankind has been walking on for
the past eon or two.

regards michael.

[r.p.bibra]

In ancient India, there were six schools of thought (Philosophy): Nyaya-Vaishaishik school postulate “At the beginning of each Kalpa (each Creation), numbers of atoms and molecules unite to form different objects with different qualities----“. So our seers had discovered the secrets of the origin of Creation and were fully aware of its composition of atoms and matter etc. (all this happened much before the advent of Greek civilization)

[mkirkpatrick]

Thank you kindly Ls for bringing this to the attention of us all here,the east has long,
long, known the riddle of universal unfoldment,as we call it evolution,the west is only
beginning to grasp the realization of it,it will take them yet a while,to fully understand
the full implications of this on so called modern science!

Our race,at present,is going through a most important period of evolution.It is passing
from the unconscious stage of spiritual deveopment,into the conscious stage.Many have
already attained their conscious stage,and many more are awakening to it.

The whole race will ultimately have it,this being precedent to their moving on.This gradual
awakening to spiritual consciousness,is what is causing all this unrest in the world of
thought,this breaking away from old ideals and forms,this hunger for the truth,this running
to and fro after "new truths",and the old truths restated.

It is a critical period in the history of the race,and many hold that it implies a possible
division of the race into two sub races,one of whom will be possessed of spiritual consc-
-iousness,and will move on ahead of the remaining subrace of slower brothers,who must
work up by degrees.But the race will again be united,before it finally passes on through
the latter stages of the evolutionary ladder.We are all bound by the grand law of cause
and effect.

regards michael.

[Graybeard]

Infinite Consciousness ..... Graybeard, read my post on "Materialism As An Absolute" and then tell me that you are going to attempt to baffle me with science ?

1)Either you will not understand what is established there or
2)you will choose not to accept what is established there because it does not conform to your beliefs.
3)The third option is that you see the truth of what is presented there and understand the falseness of material science. All science based on materialism as the fundamental reality of our universe is False ! ! ! ! !

Infinite Consciousness ... I don't believe that I fall into Category 1,2,3 ....not completely anyway. Also in 'materialism as an Absolute" the keyword that your argument relies to prove that Science cannot be the answer is the term 'stopping motion'. I don't think this is a reality in our universe ..... And Science applies to our Universe.

Please don't take this as a criticism, of your beliefs. Its a minor point.

IC .... we have wandered far from the Thread Topic. However yourself and Rajinder and Michael have raised many good issues.

I suggest I start a new thread, that is more in tune with what we are discussing, also, I suggest that we adopt Robert's mission statement, including the analogy of 'the blind ones and the matter of the elephant.'

So that we are not wasting each others time, I will PM yourself, Rajinder, and Michael in advance with my idea. This is an idea for meeting on a more neutral ground.

if we are all agreeable ..... and I think you will be ... then I will start the thread.

regards ....... greg

[mkirkpatrick]

Thanks greybeard,this thread is pulsing with energy,and can I feel go much further,I
hear what you are saying mate,and look to see what this new thread will be.

The whole universe is in the process of evolving,it is a tidal wave of awesome intent
unfolding according to natural universal laws.



regards michael.