The randomness of Evolution

[Elizabeth]

It seems to me that logic exists as a fundamental principle apon which evolution is based. Deductive reasoning suggests that logic existed before humans, indeed logic must have existed for all time. Intelligent design is an illusion brought about by the effect that logic had on the random interactions of matter. If something didn't work in a necesssary way for its survival, logically it could not have survived.

Conciousness is a greater manifestation of logic than unconciousness and provides a greater survival skill because it better correlates with how the Totality works. Rationality, a manifestation of conciousness, embodies an application of logic that incorporates the nature of randomness (which is merely the realms of causality that are beyond current human rapid comprehensive awareness).

I agree that we will either go into a golden age or annihilation. The only paths to the golden age are those sufficiently reflective of the fundamental principles, such as logic, rationality, and perhaps some further evolutions on the path of logic and rationality that we have not yet manifested.

Now, how much evolution actually occurs and over what period of time? Looking at ancient texts, such as the Christian Bible and other documents of that time and before that depict human behavior, how much have people actually changed? Some countries do still crucify heritics, and much of the average behavior and average impulses are much the same. Some laws in some countries have influenced some of the behavior, and some technological advances have changed the manifestations of various behaviors (stonings don't occur nearly as often amongst adults, but drive-by shootings seem to have taken their place), but it seems to me that not much real change has actually occurred.

[Graybeard]

It seems to me that logic exists as a fundamental principle apon which evolution is based. Deductive reasoning suggests that logic existed before humans, indeed logic must have existed for all time. Intelligent design is an illusion brought about by the effect that logic had on the random interactions of matter. If something didn't work in a necesssary way for its survival, logically it could not have survived.

A Daniel come to judgement ..... or should I say a Danielle come to judgement. Thanks for your post Elizabeth. I look forward to more

cool bananas ..... greg

[mkirkpatrick]

It seems to me that logic exists as a fundamental principle apon which evolution is based. Deductive reasoning suggests that logic existed before humans, indeed logic must have existed for all time. Intelligent design is an illusion brought about by the effect that logic had on the random interactions of matter. If something didn't work in a necesssary way for its survival, logically it could not have survived.

Conciousness is a greater manifestation of logic than unconciousness and provides a greater survival skill because it better correlates with how the Totality works. Rationality, a manifestation of conciousness, embodies an application of logic that incorporates the nature of randomness (which is merely the realms of causality that are beyond current human rapid comprehensive awareness).

I agree that we will either go into a golden age or annihilation. The only paths to the golden age are those sufficiently reflective of the fundamental principles, such as logic, rationality, and perhaps some further evolutions on the path of logic and rationality that we have not yet manifested.

Now, how much evolution actually occurs and over what period of time? Looking at ancient texts, such as the Christian Bible and other documents of that time and before that depict human behavior, how much have people actually changed? Some countries do still crucify heritics, and much of the average behavior and average impulses are much the same. Some laws in some countries have influenced some of the behavior, and some technological advances have changed the manifestations of various behaviors (stonings don't occur nearly as often amongst adults, but drive-by shootings seem to have taken their place), but it seems to me that not much real change has actually occurred.

Thank you for your most thoughtful first post in the league Elizabeth,look forward to many
more.
warm regards michael.

[Infinite Consciousness]

Infinite Consciousness ... I don't believe that I fall into Category 1,2,3 ....not completely anyway. Also in 'materialism as an Absolute" the keyword that your argument relies to prove that Science cannot be the answer is the term 'stopping motion'. I don't think this is a reality in our universe ..... And Science applies to our Universe.

Please don't take this as a criticism, of your beliefs. Its a minor point.

regards ....... greg

The irrefutable proof that Science as materialism cannot be the answer is the established fact that it "cannot be tested."

A theory such as materialism is called scientific if it "can be tested" with scientific methodology to determine its true or false status if it "cannot be tested" then the theory is not scientific.

"Materialism As An Absolute" very clearly establishes that the science of materialism "can not be tested " and therefore is pseudo or false science that is not scientific and definitely is not true science.

What is established here is the irrefutable fact that not only "materialism" is false science because it "cannot be tested" but "science" per se based on materialism is likewise false or pseudo science.

Materialism as science is dead --- Science as materialism is dead ! ! ! ! !

[Graybeard]

"Materialism As An Absolute" very clearly establishes that the science of materialism "can not be tested " and therefore is pseudo or false science that is not scientific and definitely is not true science.

Dear IC ...... it only 'establishes' this by making the assumption that motion can be totally stopped ... This is a false assumption ??? ...

What example can you give of stopping motion ??

greg

[Infinite Consciousness]

Dear IC ...... it only 'establishes' this by making the assumption that motion can be totally stopped ... This is a false assumption ??? ...

What example can you give of stopping motion ??

greg

The falseness of materialism as a science is not established by making the assumption that motion can be totally stopped ..... That is a false assumption ..... The falseness of materialism as a science and the falseness of science based on materialism is established by the irrefutable fact that it has not and cannot be tested.

Do you have a problem understanding that if a scientific theory cannot be tested it is not scientific ? ? ? ? ? It does not matter the reason "why" it cannot be tested - what matters is that it "has not and cannot be tested."

Please stop wasting my time. Keep checking the elephant - as one of the blind men you obviously by the the blindness you are showing - in not understanding or "in not accepting" the simlpe fact that science that is not tested is pseudo or false science - are not capable of understanding or truthfully discussing either Science or Consciousness to say nothing of the Science of Consciousness.

[Elizabeth]

A Daniel come to judgement ..... or should I say a Danielle come to judgement.

I'm sorry Greg, I don't understand your reference. Would you please (eegads, I hate using this word in this way) - would you please enlighten me about the Daniel reference?

[mkirkpatrick]

Evolution affects all manifested universal form,atoms are evolving,we are evolving,our
consciousness is evolving,we are becoming aware of other dimensions,such as the astral
and etheric planes,mankind is discovering that they have souls,and that they can make
contact with their soul,all is operating within the evolutionary cycle of the law,which is
simply that of unfoldment.


regards michael.

[Elizabeth]

Michael,

What evidence do you have that atoms are evolving, and in what way is this happening?

[Graybeard]

I'm sorry Greg, I don't understand your reference. Would you please (eegads, I hate using this word in this way) - would you please enlighten me about the Daniel reference?

Well .... I am not a very religious person .... and I may be wrong .... But at one time in Babylon at the height of its power and fame, the current tyrant was named Balthazzar, and he was fond of holding orgies in the temple. Also the city was under siege by the Persians. It had been for years. it was a bit of a joke as the walls were impregnable. They had plenty of food, and water flowed in thru underground cisterns. The siege was treated as a joke! The leaders of the Siege were actually on holidays in Persia at the time

Into the midst of one particular orgy a mysterious hand appeared and wrote on the temple wall 'Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin'. (I am not really making this up.. its from my convent school upbringing)

The writing cast a gloom on the proceedings, especially as none of the revellers could read it .... at that time they had a minor prophet called Daniel locked in the dungeons for causing some sort of civil unrest. So they dragged him up and asked him if he could read it.

He could, as it turned out. But what he said I don't know. I do know a romantic translation written by the poet, Byron... here it is.

Balthazzar's grave is made
his kingdom passed away
He .. in the balance weighed
is light and worthless clay!

The shroud, his robe of State
his canopy, the Stone
the Mede is at his gate
the Persian on his throne.

It translates well from the original, wouldn't you agree I suspect that Byron used some peotic licence here.

But, the really amazing thing is .... that very night, the beseigers, gone off on their holidays, left a young Corporal in charge of the siege. He diverted the water flow away from the underground cisterns and marched his army into the city underground. The City fell, without a drop of blood being spilt ... except for Balthazzar ... who lost quite a lot when they couldn't get his head back on after it had been accidently cut off..... .

From that day to this no one has lived in Babylon ... But the suburb beside it is heavily populated, Bagdad.

From this calamity two sayings have remained with us. "The writings on the wall", and "A Daniel come to judgement"

As you were female, I referred to Danielle.

I hope this 'short' explanation suffices ....

greg