The randomness of Evolution

[mkirkpatrick]

Michael,

What evidence do you have that atoms are evolving, and in what way is this happening?

What I mean Elizabeth is that atoms seem to ascend through the various kingdoms
such as the mineral.vegetable,animal,and finally the human kingdom,for me,evolution
must include all of universal manifestation,not just a narrow band like just here on earth.
Another reason I mention atoms is because I am rather fond of them!

regards michael.

[Graybeard]

Infinite Consciousness ..... MATERIALISM WHAT IT IS ! ! !

My point here is that Materialism (the scientific theory that mind and consciousness are pure physical motions and interactions of matter) does not meet the requirement of what is scientific.

If mind and consciousness are pure physical motions and interactions of matter and we stopped the motions and interactions of matter to determine if matter is the fundamental reality - and to determine if mind and consciousness are pure physical motions and interactions of matter - then according to the theory of materialism there would be no mind and no consciousness to apply a scientific methodology to determine the true or false status of the theory.

Therefore materialism is an absolute that cannot meet the requirements of what is scientific i.e. it can not apply a scientific methodology to determine the true or false status of its theory.

A theory such as materialism is called scientific if it can be tested with scientific methodology to determine its true or false status if it cannot be tested then the theory is not scientific. Materialism as i have just clearly pointed out is a theory that cannot be tested therefore it is not scientific.

Science abhors absolutes and yet materialism is an absolute that is not scientific because it - has not - does not - and cannot - use scientific methodology to determine its true or false status.

ROBERT our fearless leader claims that "The" T.O.E. should be based on science and look for a deep explanation for all things material and "spiritual."

As i have just pointed out materialism is not science and it cannot look for any explanation of things spiritual because according to materialism if we stop the motions and interactions of matter there is no mind and no consciousness and nothing to recognize or experience matter or consciousness or spirit.

MATERIALISM in fact is a non-scientific total denial of consciousness or spirit. It cannot be used as science to to look for a deep explanation or to explore - matter - mind - consciousness - or spirit - because according to materialism as soon as the motion stops there is - no mind - no consciousness - no spirit - and consequently no matter to explore or explain.


MATERIALISM AS SCIENCE IS DEAD DON'T DIE WITH IT ! ! ! ! !

Dear Infinite Consciousness ..... Before you get your knickers in any more knots.... Earlier in this thread I asked you a question .... your reply was to read the above quote... I did !!

I don't believe you can use the above analogies .... Your statement that Science is false relies on the proof that if you were to "stop the motions and interactions of matter" then Science would be forced to fall flat on its sword......

My understanding is that you can not stop the interactions of motion and matter any more than you can chase down a beam of light. If you can then supply an example ..... Otherwise how can you rely on this analogy as proof.

I am probably very dumb .... am awaiting your enlightment on this matter ..

cool bananas ...... greg

[Elizabeth]

Greg - Thank you.

Michael - I'm trying to follow your thought on the evolution of atoms. It kind of looks like a samsara theory. Could you clarify a bit more, perhaps point more directly at what evidence has led you to conclude that atoms ascend through various kingdoms?

I do see how atoms migrate from one kingdom to another. For example, if a cow eats grass, the atoms in the grass become cow and manure. The manure goes to the ground and fetilizes more plants, and a human eats the cow or crinks her milk, and those atoms have migrated from being a cow to either being a human or feces. When the human dies, perhaps the body is cremated and again returned to the soil. This progression, however, does not seem to equate with "evolution" - at least not in the sense I took this thread to be about.

Was there something further to your theory of evolution of atoms?

[mkirkpatrick]

Elizabeth,regards your quiry about the atom.I go along with the teachings of the ageless wisdom,which suggest that all manifestation,atoms included are centres of consciousness.
the atom itself is a "force-centre" a swirling vortex of energy,this vortex i maintain is a
point of consciosness,which over a period of countless eons,evolves and becomes more
and more able to respond to vibration,and by practise "learns" discrimation,and seems
to select those opportunities which will further its expansion.The stages at which the atom does this,can be likenened to the stages in the life of a human being;childhood,
adolescence,and maturity.albeit the atoms stages are of a far longer peroid,but the
parallel is valid,I feel.


regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

There is a grand law of cycles,and I wonder whether this operates prehaps randomly
here on earth,the reason I put this forward is this;there are many ancient stories of the
lost continent of Atlantis,prior to that there was supposed to be the motherland MU or
Lemuria as it was apparently called,and even further back still,there was a continent
which reportedly was where the Antartica is now called Ambrosia,Hybernia,There were
reports of a golden age,where man had developed mental powers far beyond our range
today,so the point I am somewhat laboriously trying to make here is this;when thelaw of evolution meets self conscious entities,does it then loose its randomness,and prehaps
even bring about the extinction of the race,as apparently happened in Atlantis.At the same time universally the law of evolution is unfolding,without the input of self-aware
entities?


regards michael.

[Elizabeth]

Michael,

Do you have any links on this previous golden age?

[Lloyd Gillespie]

I totally agree with you here Greg;but which science are we talking about?The one that matters most to me is;the esoteric sciences of the east,the Bhagavad Gita,occult science, Gnani Yoga,the yoga of science,mind,and wisdom.Or do you mean,that thing that operates today,and is called somewhat hesitantly science?

regards michael.

MK, the unification of differences doesn't start with a personal criticism of another's ideas, which is exactly what you have done here. I have followed this thread from the beginning, and you are the first to not only personally criticize Greg's ideas, but science in general, as well. The unification of differences requires a certain degree of integrity, which you certainly have not shown. I think if we are going to get anywhere with a unification of differences, we must start with, at the least, respecting the integrity of the postee, in his own thread. If you have such divergent opinions, you should save them for your own threads, especially since you are the moderator of this section...

regards,

[mkirkpatrick]

MK, the unification of differences doesn't start with a personal criticism of another's ideas, which is exactly what you have done here. I have followed this thread from the beginning, and you are the first to not only personally criticize Greg's ideas, but science in general, as well. The unification of differences requires a certain degree of integrity, which you certainly have not shown. I think if we are going to get anywhere with a unification of differences, we must start with, at the least, respecting the integrity of the postee, in his own thread. If you have such divergent opinions, you should save them for your own threads, especially since you are the moderator of this section...

regards,

Lloyd,Greg is a good friend of mine,we agree to differ often,I do criticize science,yes,
I am allowed that,as it is my opinion!I do respect Gregs integrity,and he mine,but I see
that you may have misunderstood our light hearted banter,and for that I do aplogise.

regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

The irrefutable proof that Science as materialism cannot be the answer is the established fact that it "cannot be tested." [This is pure ignorance of science, and an outright lie.]

A theory such as materialism is called scientific if it "can be tested" with scientific methodology to determine its true or false status if it "cannot be tested" then the theory is not scientific.

"Materialism As An Absolute"[Your own personal deffinition. I have only used absolute fecetiously to back you spiritists down, and never mentioned materialism as an absolute, nor do I think anyone else has, except you.] very clearly establishes that the science of materialism "can not be tested " and therefore is pseudo or false science that is not scientific and definitely is not true science. [How would anyone as unscientific as you, know anything about science?]

What is established here is the irrefutable fact that not only "materialism" is false science because it "cannot be tested" but "science" per se based on materialism is likewise false or pseudo science. [This is pure unadulteratedly false.]

Materialism as science is dead --- Science as materialism is dead ! ! ! ! !

I.C., what is this materialism, you keep referring to, your ideal of the Rennaissance period? Don't answer, I'm not interested... You should try to understand some real science of the mind, my friend...

regards,

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Can Evolution, as a totally random process, using Natural Selection, be responsible for all we see around us?

I believe it can.

What do you think?


greg

It is all it can be, Greg. There is no other science, and dna proves evolution___the databases of information are very clear about these facts...

Regards,
Lloyd