[Lloyd Gillespie]

"When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."[1] David Hume

Is life an absolute principle? I say this depends on the absolute understanding of all the absolute physical facts. I also say, the total absolute understanding of all the absolute physical facts is the key to the TOE. Now, how do we set about to do this? This means the metaphysical[defined as beyond physical] mystic, etc., must show with physical facts, how it exists. It also means the physical science[defined as within physical] logical, etc., must also show with physical facts, how it exists. Anyone willing to take up the challenges presented?

Regards,
Lloyd

[mkirkpatrick]

Thanks for starting of this thread Lloyd,Is life an Absolute principle?Well the answer for me is a resounding yes in the affirmitive.Now why do I think that?Because I see life
everywhere I look,I am aware that what I see is only a physical representation of an inner reality,and it is that "inner reality" that to me is the animator,the energiser of all
motioning.For me life is motion,the moving energy to me is life,not self conscious life,but
consciousness-life-motion.Life to me is the only REAL principle there is,all other laws
spring from the living water of life.More to follow.


regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Mk, this thread is not about your thinking, it's about the facts of your thinking. So, if you have any facts of thought, please post them. The only fact you presented is you see life everywhere. I can accept that, but the rest is biased nonsense... Please, state the physical facts behind your biased positions...

regards,

[mkirkpatrick]

Oh dear Lloyd,prehaps this excursion is doomed to failure?You are fascinated by facts,do you really know what they are??It was a fact to most people 3 hundred years ago that the earth was flat?Victorian science said that the aerodynamic facts of the bumble-bee proved
that it could not possibly fly??

My premise is this,motion that is universal in its expression within the physical universe
is alive and has consciousness,the principle of life is expressed in motion.


regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

All I see is you absolutely admit you have no facts, only emotional conjectures, of the lowest orders. It would be nice to see you back up just one of your conjectures with a few physical facts...

Let's see, if I strip away the encoded emotions; Motion is universal, within the physical universe. The principle of life is expressed in motion. True enough, now...

But is life an absolute principle, i.e., fundamentally eternal? If you say yes, where's the facts of such outrageous conjecture? I must state, it's been rejected by most of the world's most brilliant philosophers, for almost a century, and by many others for over two centuries. Only mystics, believing in their inner selfish self-reflective egos, still believe in such nonsense. Science knows the difference between self-reflective egoistic nonsense, and the physical facts of the outside world. It's easy, when you realize the inner being is no more than a self-created soul, mind and spirit ego illusion, sprinkled with some moral sensibilities, but not much...

regards,

p.s.
"Morality is your prejudices learned by age 18." Nietzsche
"Morality is created as you see others, see you." My wife.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie All I see is you absolutely admit you have no facts, only emotional conjectures, of the lowest orders. It would be nice to see you back up just one of your conjectures with a few physical facts... Let's see, if I strip away the encoded emotions; Motion is universal, within the physical universe. The principle of life is expressed in motion. True enough, now... But is life an absolute principle, i.e., fundamentally eternal? If you say yes, where's the facts of such outrageous conjecture? I must state, it's been rejected by most of the world's most brilliant philosophers, for almost a century, and by many others for over two centuries. Only mystics, believing in their inner selfish self-reflective egos, still believe in such nonsense. Science knows the difference between self-reflective egoistic nonsense, and the physical facts of the outside world. It's easy, when you realize the inner being is no more than a self-created soul, mind and spirit ego illusion, sprinkled with some moral sensibilities, but not much... regards, p.s. "Morality is your prejudices learned by age 18." Nietzsche "Morality is created as you see others, see you." My wife.

You seem obsessed with this word emotion,you trot it out a every opportunity,along with
the word ontic,what is the matter with you man?I am not emotional about saying what i know to be reality,any more than you are with your threadbare "facts" that you so slavishly cling to.Yes life is fundamentally eternal that is a FACT with a capital FFFFF.
It has nothing to do with ego Lloyd,but everything to do with FACTSmthe real ones though
not the school boy thread bare ego centric worn out hash of excuses that you cling to like
a drowning man!Guess this is the end of the line,all change.

regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

There you go again, stating emotions instead of facts, and claiming them facts. I don't trot out the emotional card. I see you being insecurely emotional, and simply point it out, as it's very offensive. I also only mention the ontic when I see it falsely used to make unjust points. You do that almost every post. And as to ego___just about everything you post is of your over-sensative ego. You need study a little basic logic, miss emotional insecurity...

Don't snap your panties so loudly, girly-boy, and you wouldn't get picked bare so often...

regards,

p.s.
If you could ever state a factual post, we could communicate, but I guess that's far, far beyond your abilities...

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie There you go again, stating emotions instead of facts, and claiming them facts. I don't trot out the emotional card. I see you being insecurely emotional, and simply point it out, as it's very offensive. I also only mention the ontic when I see it falsely used to make unjust points. You do that almost every post. And as to ego___just about everything you post is of your over-sensative ego. You need study a little basic logic, miss emotional insecurity... Don't snap your panties so loudly, girly-boy, and you wouldn't get picked bare so often... regards, p.s. If you could ever state a factual post, we could communicate, but I guess that's far, far beyond your abilities...

Lloyd it has nothing to do with emotions,it has everything to do with being as it so clearly
appears to be,that we are diametrically opposed to each others views and ideas of reality,
i am not ever going to consider what you think to be real,i find it rather repulsive and
ego-centrically driven,you it seems will not consider what i understand reality to be,so there you go,it is not emotions Lloyd,it is a gulf of difference between us.

So thats it,for me,there is nowhere else to go with this.

regards michael.

[Graybeard]

Lloyd quoting David Hume ....."When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."[1] David Hume

Lloyd .... Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning facts. NO. Commit it then to the flames.

Lloyd I am of your persuasion. I agree with the above quote. But you must understand that our, yours, mine, and many others opinions of what is a fact is not everybodys idea of a fact. Regardless of the FACT that we are right and they are wrong.

Lets suspend our dis-belief. Lets let them have a say.

Then gently, kindly, after we have nibbled on their hook and they feel the bite, let them know that we also have opinions and that in order to get us to the landing net they will have to digest OUR facts. They will never listen if you shout at them. Lets engage them on their own grounds and may the 'correctest' win

The rules of this Thread .....must also show with physical facts, how it exists. Anyone willing to take up the challenges presented?

This is the rule you set !!

Michael's first reply, after thanking you, contained a fact. Here it is

Because I see life everywhere I look, I am aware that what I see is only a physical representation of an inner reality, and it is that "inner reality" that to me is the animator, the energiser of all motioning

When you and I agree on a fact, we know, because of the knowledge we have in our memories that what we see as the fact or experiment agrees with that which is in our memory. We would go further and explain that even our memories are simply another physical/material system. Michael is saying the same thing !!

It is not possible to have a productive thread if we are not flexible... I think the rule you set is fair ... posters should provide evidence of what they post ... but I also think we should intrepret the rule more generously .. or, as always, it will end in an interminable argument where the original idea becomes submerged in personal claims and counterclaims.

lets all give it a go.. lets consider what others say and pause for a few moments before hitting the reply button ....... greg

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick Lloyd it has nothing to do with emotions,it has everything to do with being as it so clearly appears to be,that we are diametrically opposed to each others views and ideas of reality, i am not ever going to consider what you think to be real,i find it rather repulsive and ego-centrically driven,you it seems will not consider what i understand reality to be,so there you go,it is not emotions Lloyd,it is a gulf of difference between us. So thats it,for me,there is nowhere else to go with this. regards michael.

Yeah...because you have no logical facts, just illogical insecure egoistic emotions. The difference Mk, is my intelligence and your ignorance of the facts...

regards,