Birth of a New God:

[Graybeard]

This first post is only an Intro and you can skip to the second Post if you like:

In late 1942 the second world war was in full swing, and things were not going well for the Allies: Within the ranks of the Allied powers were the British Empire, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and the United States of America, known as "The Big Three". U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt referred to the Big Three and China as the "Four Policemen". Poland and France, before its defeat in 1940 and after Operation Torch, were considered major allies.

The Allies had been beaten out of Europe, were being beaten out of North Africa and the Japanese were gaining huge quantities of territory throughout the Pacific Islands and nothing appeared likely to prevent them taking India as well. America, one of the 'big three' had yet to have its ground forces tested in battle, this was to be an expensive lesson received in North Africa at the hands of Rommell's retreating forces.. Russia had yet to turn at Stalingrad, and as no one could have predicted this, least of all the Russians, Russia's fall appeared certain. Things were worrying, very worrying.

There were two glimmers of light on the burning, stricken horizon.

First. The Battle of Midway had been won by the Americans, history would show this to be of crucial importance. Defeat had been turned to victory in a moment by a few, aging, outclassed, slow, and totally off course Douglas Dauntless Dive Bombers. Churchill said of the battle of Britain Pilots "Never has so much been owed by so many to so few .... etc". Lets include those American Dauntless pilots here as well. Midway would prove a major turning point of the war, the turning point of the War in the Pacific.

Second. The Battle of Al Alamein in North Africa had just been won, this was the first allied victory after 2 years of endless defeats on the ground. Among the British Empire Forces were the Australians and the New Zealanders. We had both fought well, and the major brunt of the battle had fallen to our lines.

But now the battle was over and Rommel was in retreat in North Africa, and the Japanese were on our doorstep. (Australia and New Zealand). Our governments wanted our forces returned immediately. Churchill, who had seen the first glimmer of light in the nightmare that was Europe, refused !! How can one country refuse to return the fighting forces of two other countries who had voluntarily been helping it when those countries themselves have come under imminent threat? He did !! We had no way to bring our troops back, we had no ships. We were of no strategic importance to the war in Europe.

I don't know what dealings were done here, perhaps no one ever will.... Allegations of treason against Menzies, the Prime Minister (a self-confessed Anglophile) ... A controversial line called the 'Brisbane Line' which was meant to surrender everything north of Brisbane, half of Australia, to the Japanese, and so on, and so on. Muddle and incompetence ... if it wasn't treachery then it stood at least as tall.

Ultimately the upshot was that Churchill would return the Australian forces while the New Zealand forces would fight on in Africa and then Europe. Menzies Government would fall and Australians would vote in a new Labor Government.

Australian forces were rushed back. In order for the Japanese to take Australia they had first to take the strategic town of Port Moresby in Papua-New Guinea.

Port Moresby was to be taken by the Japanese Navy and Japanese ground forces coming overland from the North. The sea was to be defended by the American Navy, and the Owen Stanley Mountain Ranges which cradled Port Moresby would be held by Australian ground forces.

There is only one way thru the Owen Stanley Ranges and that is along the single file track called the Kokoda Trail.

This is where the story should have started and I apologise for the long-winded intro ..

[Graybeard]

The Kokoda Trail was to be remembered by both forces as a muddy, stinking putrid quagmire of death, disease, dysentery, fear, endless rain and biting insects.... but chiefly exhaustion. In the end the Japanese were forced to resort to the cannabilism of war dead thru lack of supplies.

Thats how we saw it. Thats how the Japanese saw it. But what about the people who lived there? These people were tribal, living in a stone age culture.

To them, it appeared as tho the million minions of two Gods had descended from nowhere and were fighting to the death. They may not have known which God was which when it started, but they caught on quickly. They fell in with the Allies.

They performed many heroic acts under fire in order to retrieve, care for and return Australian wounded to the safety of the rear lines. They believed they were helping the good God. You can read about their courage here. Australians affectionately refer to them as the Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels. Here is a single example.

“They carried stretchers over seemingly impassable barriers, with the patient reasonably comfortable. The care they give to the patient is magnificent. If night finds the stretcher still on the track, they will find a level spot and build a shelter over the patient. They will make him as comfortable as possible fetch him water and feed him if food is available, regardless of their own needs. They sleep four each side of the stretcher and if the patient moves or requires any attention during the night, this is given instantly. These were the deeds of the ‘Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels’ – for us!”

Eventually the winds of war shifted and blew out past Guadalcanal ... the Japanese were forced to focus further north, and their remaining forces in New Guinea were left to contemplate their coming death.

The people of this area, the indigenous natives, the Fuzzy Wuzzys, had many Gods. When these Gods spoke, they spoke thru the tribal elders. The symbolism was in the headdresses that the tribal elders wore for these occasions.

Bluntly put, when the headdress was put on, that person was translating the Gods wishes. The same as a priest donning the sacramental robes prior to conducting a mass.

The tribal people had many Gods for many occasions, the same as the priest has many different robes for different occasions, easter, christmas, etc, etc.

I was recently in Canberra and visited the war memorial and museum. I photographed a number of these headdresses. They are mostly Anthromorphs (human like abstracts, concepts). Here are some of them.











But after the war they added new Gods. Less pretty, but much more complex in their symbolism. The experience of the horror of the war on their territory forced them to re-evaluate their Gods. They didn't understand the overall conflict of WWII. To them the war was a war between their Gods, and when it moved away from the ranges, for them it was over. But the effects were not!

Here are two of their new Gods ..





These are the headdresses used to communicate with the new Gods. One is a Hurricane Fighter belching fire on the Bad Gods minions, the other is a Liberator Bomber. These Gods are no longer Anthro-morphs, but are abstracts of a much more complex understanding.

Aren't our Gods the same, each level of abstract added as new experiences are added to our knowledge. our latest is Intelligent Design, whats the difference !!

It would appear that all Gods are Cargo Cults. What do you think ?

cool bananas ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

At least they based their gods on what they saw, although still perhaps adding more to it, instead of 'nothing' but the realm of imagination.

Everyone here knows that Obama is god.

[analog]

Like many of the subjects we debate here at ToeQuest, this could also be discussed at many different levels/resolutions. I guess the main question at the most relevant resolution would be: is intelligence a construct of an interacting world, or is an interacting world a construct of a preexisting intelligence?

My choice is the first. The ability for physical interactions to become complex isn't a sign of intelligence or design, but rather random complexity manifest through compounding interactions. It only appears intelligent after the fact. The entire process, when viewed as a whole, is much more convincing of an interacting material world governed merely by properties with no favor towards anything; rather than intentions with a purpose. Our world is better understood by examining the properties that it exhibits; rather than searching for any purpose within it.

Based on my views of our world, as intelligence being manifest from material substance; the concept of God would also be a further construct from the lower level; rather than the opposite approach, as you've discussed above.

We manifest the God, built from our interpretations of our environment, as seen above and with so many other religions that worshiped those things apparent to them (e.g. sun, moon, stars, animals, etc.).

Understanding truly can have no void, and we will answer all questions within our minds, whether right or wrongly; thus depending on the level at which a person's comprehension of the interactions of our world stop for them is relative to how they fill that void. For some, a God fits nicely in answering the many questions brought forth by their curious minds as it tries to understand our world; but for others, only a few questions remain, of which the puzzle piece of a God just doesn't fit.

At the most complex level, even our "Quest" to fill the void of understanding with knowledge and truth must ultimately also be viewed as an effect/construct of an ever changing, ever moving, ever evolving universe; rather than the cause/constructor of any future knowledge we may gather, in our search for the "God" of our world.

Regards,

Tim

[Graybeard]

Based on my views of our world, as intelligence being manifest from material substance; the concept of God would also be a further construct from the lower level; rather than the opposite approach, as you've discussed above.

I don't see it that we have taken opposite approaches. We once wore headdresses too. Good post and very well written.

cool bananas ... greg

[analog]

The two approaches I was referring to was lower level interactions manifesting higher level interactions (i.e. intelligence; God being a further construct/concept) vs. higher level intelligence (i.e. God) manifesting a lower level interacting world.

Those people, who you discuss above, were filling their void of understanding with the concept of a God/Gods, whom they represented with objects from their environment. When new objects and events were introduced into that environment, so too did their representations and explainations expand.

I didn't mean that you and I have taken opposite approaches, if that's how you read it. I'm pretty familiar with your views at this point and we share many of the same beliefs.

regards,

Tim

[Graybeard]

Those people, who you discuss above, were filling their void of understanding with the concept of a God/Gods, whom they represented with objects from their environment. When new objects and events were introduced into that environment, so too did their representations and explainations expand.

For the record ... this is exactly how I see it too. In my posts I was trying not to let too much of my own opinion sway the story. My point is that our 'modern' Gods are no different to theirs, we are just filling our own 'void of mis-understanding'

cool bananas ... greg

[r.p.bibra]

All gods are the creation of human imagination. But about the supreme-reality (truth) of the universe we shall have to find a rational basis, which can never be chaos/uncertainty/unknown/nothingness, as intelligence (intelligent beings) can not ‘emerge, out of the void ‘nothingness (ignorance)! Love&regards.ls.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi r.p.,

I think intelligence is just the shuffling of objects,including thoughts, since movement grants time which grants a past and future from which becomes remembrance and vision for structures in mind and space, allowing progress an history, change of mind/structure.

I we allow that the larger thing of the real reality of the universe or of whence it came, if not here forever, can need no intelligence behind it from which it could emerge, then this says intelligence can come about on its own. Of course, then there is no need to move the question a step back onto the real reality, thank God, for then we are stuck with a larger (humongous) question need a larger answer.

[analog]

Their God's would have impressed me more if the natives would have already had the evolved headdresses (with the planes and such) before the war and troops arrived, as if having already been alerted to the future dangers......LOL

Wouldn't that have freaked out the troops. I might have even become a believer myself.......well......maybe not.