East Meets West Logic...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Sorry - I'm getting confused.

Can you describe the system which you have in mind in a simple sentence or two?

As near balanced distribution of wealth, goods, services and whatever__as is technically/scientifically possible, while maintaining a thin margin of incentive__to keep the system going__A % of desire is and will always be required, as human beings can never achieve perfection. I'm simply interpreting the necessities of the human spirit, and nature's resource capacity__as best as is humanly possible__as mathematically accurate as are my abilities. The many graphs and links I've offered, are the best help with understanding what the system is__I have in mind...

~*~

From above:

Point 1 (LG)
I can't find a difference in our views on 'liberty'
- my argument is that your view leads onto mine -
two concepts of liberty.
Both with their place in time during the human life-time.

More explicitly that children up until maturity of mind require to be contained within a more rigid system controlling their civil liberties until they're ready to be set free.

And my point is__Most can never be set free__They are far too under-educated and dangerous__plus, they are the majority. Law of civil liberties, will always be required to curb these animal spirit freedoms__in this particular group__The mob can actually become a reality, at any time. This isn't my fear__This is reality__I know these rabble-rousers...

Point 2

(LG)
'stretching it'

The only question which I need to have answered is how does one earn money in a World in which earning money is required and where money itself is bad?

Change "money itself is bad" to its pure function perspective. Imo, your "money itself is bad" is your private language 'possibly bad' judgment, and not a reality for others. It seems to be your personal self-hidden Nietzsche complex, if I may say that without making you angry__just trying to help... Money is good, when it serves a good function, i.e., free global transportation and free tickets to all national attractions, plus room and board__for two months out of every year__vacations... The robots are going to put so many out of work anyway, that we'll soon have this extra time a year, when labor is re-organized to employ all who wish to work__at less hours per year...

Point 3

(LG)
'further explanation'


Counter-balance to ensure balance when imbalance occurs.

The only way__Civil justice and liberty for all...rrr

[SB_UK]

Why are any of surprised to find that others do not think as we do?
Why do each of us somehow think that we have the one and only correct view of the world?

I stand by the comment of desire for power......in the form of self knowledge. Know Thyself.
That so many interpret desire for power in the negative context of holding power over others is an interesting observation for me.

To my mind, the only one over which any of us has any hope of holding any lasting power is ourself.
As for all of the teachers who have gone before, each has something to contribute. I accept or reject none in their entirety but will borrow from each if it serves....

Power over others (Stage II)
->-
Power over oneself (Stage III)

Freedom from selfish desire (Stage II)
->-
Community friendly desires - the freedom from selfish desires leading to (for the first time) - the individual gaining power over himself.

Selfish desire clouds the mind -
- the loss of selfish desire leads to the clarity of mind in which the power of self-control is gained.

[SB_UK]

"money itself is bad"

money is currently bad.

money can be good.

I'm wondering though whether money was set up to be bad guy - our species no longer needing it when its job (as a tool for exertion of repression)
was
seen
through -

- kinda' like when Dorothy (courtesy of Toto) happens upon the Wizard of Oz and the illusion is shattered -
- the illusion shattered just before she wakes up back home in Kansas.

Dorothy arrived home only after giving up (seeing through) the Wizard's ruse.

[SB_UK]

[/color]__A % of desire is and will always be required ... ...

Why can't this be a sense of satisfaction at a job well done?

[SB_UK]

And my point is__Most can never be set free__

I agree with you using some contexts for the term free.

I'm using it in the sense that if you hang a left, turn right and then right again from here that you *will* arrive at a corner shop bearing a banner across its entrance proclaiming that everything's 'FREE' -
- and that although you may not know that you're hungry -
you'll find a selection of FREE delicacies just one of which you'll be tempted into trying only to find - just so yummy that you're magically transformed into a state of bliss for what'll feel like an eternity.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

I stand by the comment of desire for power......in the form of self knowledge. Know Thyself.

That so many interpret desire for power in the negative context of holding power over others is an interesting observation for me.

As per above Lorrina, when speaking of self-power over oneself__I completely agree with you. Self-power of self-control is one of our greatest attributes__Always...

The thing is, as per your second sentence above, is that man has been handed this overly-negative history and philosophy to sort the world, that most fall into the negative aspects of interpreting power, when we all realize the positive is also there. This is the cause of most dis-agreements__each is speaking of the opposite side of the issues, without even knowing it__That's just how ridiculous dialogue often really is/can be... It often takes a lot of investigation, to find the central truths, of just the simplest of ideas...rrr

[SB_UK]

As per above Lorrina, when speaking of self-power over oneself__I completely agree with you. Self-power of self-control is one of our greatest attributes__Always...

Exactly

That so many interpret desire for power in the negative context of holding power over others is an interesting observation for me.

Words.

Just words.

Inherent ambiguity based on the mind of the individual who chooses to speak.

I think I'd expect the term power to be used to refer to over others and power over oneself to be phrased as control over self in the course of real-time conversational English.

Power has become synonymous with abuse.

The power-monger has no positive attribute.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Why can't this be a sense of satisfaction at a job well done?

Imo's...rrr

Distant enough future state of not requiring money__Yes...

Present state of mind and required money__No...

[SB_UK]

Imo's...rrr

Distant enough future state of not requiring money__Yes...

Present state of mind and required money__No...

Does the replacement which you have in mind (for the present system) lead inexorably (in time) to the future system?

[labelwench]

Exactly
Words.

Just words.

Inherent ambiguity based on the mind of the individual who chooses to speak.

I think I'd expect the term power to be used to refer to over others and power over oneself to be phrased as control over self in the course of real-time conversational English.

Power has become synonymous with abuse.

The power-monger has no positive attribute.

Power.

How little is it understood.

Only words?

Words are among our greatest tools of power,

for better

or

for worse.

Elvis Presley with Words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLH2lC-9ASo

An interesting symbol for a discussion such as is taking place, given the amount of wealth and power he wielded in life and in death.

Yet did he truly know himself? Despite his ability to use words, music and imagery to such powerful effect?