East Meets West Logic...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Does the replacement which you have in mind (for the present system) lead inexorably (in time) to the future system?

Yes...!!!rrr

[SB_UK]

Only words?

Words are among our greatest tools of power,

for better

or

for worse.

Conditional on the points which Peirce (no doubt) uncovered in :

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/How_to...ur_Ideas_Clear

~*~

It's impossible to communicate effectively without the capacity to read from other perspectives (at least one other perspective).

The individual who seeks to communicate needs to be able to work out whether a miscommunication is occurring.

This skill is learnt around children by listening.

[SB_UK]

Yay ...!!!rrr

You win then.

[labelwench]

Conditional on the points.........

It is when we begin to impose the conditions, that the misunderstandings arise.

TOE may be found to be a universal form of communication, that all understand, intuitively, whatever form it eventually reveals itself to be....

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Conditional on the points.........

It is when we begin to impose the conditions, that the misunderstandings arise.

TOE may be found to be a universal form of communication, that all understand, intuitively, whatever form it eventually reveals itself to be....

Exactly our pointers/points, Lorrina__Thanks...rrr

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie
Yay ...!!!rrr

You win then.

Not really trying to win__Just hoping to be able to give us all a chance__at future survival__but thanks anyway, for the vote of confidence...rrr

[SB_UK]

Not really trying to win__Just hoping to be able to give us all a chance__at future survival__but thanks anyway, for the vote of confidence...rrr

It'd be nice if we could just evolve away from the need to eat or for heat.

That'd in effect free us from the whole survival thing.

We'd just need a family-sized cardboard box to live in.

[~btw~ all of that is going to happen and we'll (I'm pretty sure) live happily ever after]

• The evolutionary trend is towards freedom from the constraints of environment -
  - the brain puts too much of a strain on the body for nutrition.
• I know far too many people (in this house) who are beginning to despise food.
• The planet is due to run out of chemicals which are essential for agriculture in the next few years.
• The last supper (from the bible).
• A biological mechanism exists to answer our needs.
• There to comfort you In your darkest hour.
• The hallucination (upon sensory deprivation).
• To turn bread and water into fish and wine (effectively).
• REM sleep, hibernation, brown fat, reduced Basal Metabolism.
• Food allergies - they don't make sense
• The suspicion (posted on MJA's veggie thread) that no food is good for us.
• The landowner - and everything that this term conveys - nothing good ~btw~.

~*~

It's all too sweet a match
- a perfect fit for our continuation -
if there's no longer any competition for limiting resources.

We'll be freed to create mental level (informational) trinkets to adorn each other's minds with.

~*~

Evolving away from the need to eat is our best solution to this current problem.

Our brain, biochemistry, hearing, eyesight, thumbs are aspects of ourself which I associate with evolution -
there's this niggling feeling that money doesn't fit this pattern.

It's not actually a part of us.

[labelwench]

Our treasure lies in the beehive of our knowledge. We are perpetually on the way thither, being by nature winged insects and honey gatherers of the mind.
Friedrich Nietzsche

[Lloyd Gillespie]

“Man’s money system is forcing war, poverty and crime on the world.”

This is what the universal inverse square law of value states>>"The more concentrated money is, the less value it distributes. The more distributed money is, the more value it distributes..."(Scientific facts...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie
Take the first part of the 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' movie, which is correct about only principle being printed, and interest being fought for to eventual necessity of wars, and this is true__But now, mathematically design it's feasible replacement__and you get the whole picture...


The above are the foundations I’d like to expand on in this post. Though I may have mentioned some negatives about taxing the Rich, to bring their greed back in balance with reality__I’ve also advocated solving the problems with the existing money system, that forces the initial problems onto the world__by not printing the interest to repay the principles lent__This is what must change, and it’ll benefit the Rich, as well as the Poor.

The feasible replacement would be that which bridges Einstein’s Gap, and Godel’s incompletenesses__to benefit all of humankind. This is the system Plato, Franklin, and Keynes dreamed up__and the one I independently thought up in 1982, which is further backed by America’s seminal economist, Paul Davidson, among many others. We only need realize it’s simply a way to crude print the needed interest and public debt, to successfully run all nations out of debt, over a safe period of time__while insuring no inflation is present, by instituting laws and systems of public and private enterprise, that accomplishes just that, by thoroughly re-balancing the entire international financial architecture. This is truly a system no-one should be against__if they’d but try to understand its dynamics__which is no more than Keynes’ total system__completely understood, for the first time in world history…

I understand your post and maybe -

I don't really know.

Survival is an absolute requirement and preventing abuse helps it to happen.

I'm simply suggesting that once people are all happily surviving - which will be our reality soon
- that they'll need something to do.

I'm trying to suggest that the process of construction of mind -> towards -> realising spirituality as the only path to happiness.

And I can only partially agree with you here. There are many people, in fact a majority, who do not want to realize their spirituality. They are satisfied knowing themselves in a simple functioning mode, to their chosen classification area of their local cultures. That’s what makes them happy, as is the truth of just about everyone in all the campgrounds and communities of average people, I’ve ever lived around. Now, the academics and wanna-be academics and chosen-path spiritualists is a different story__They do want to achieve the realization of their own spiritualities__So be it__Let it all be…

I'm trying to suggest that this is our life cycle -

and much as the caterpillar can only become a butterfly (and not for instance an eagle) -
- we only have the physical -> mental -> spiritual transition to look forwards to -

luckily though -
- it is enough.

So ... ... yes to your ideas -
merely trying to address the next couple of problems which we'll face as soon as everybody is fed -

- and in the process giving people a positive, credible incentive to change -
so that the whole process of change for the better 'll feel more joyous than it otherwise would.

That’s all fine, for all those who wish to do so…

If we're not careful we'll have an army of the currently privileged committing acts of atrocity against their neighbours or racial minorities

(who I sense - with the rise of the third World non-white communities
- may take a kicking (as things deteriorate)) -
(they have all of the guns after all)

- if the process of change isn't explained in a manner which meets with their approval.

That’s why I’ve more often than not used and systems’ language that is to their liking/pleasing. But, I do think I’m allowed an occasional rant__once in a while, to blow off a bit of steam. Over-all, I do believe in directing the language in their direction, because as I’ve mentioned before__I full well realize they are easily stampeded by fear…

I'm not trying to state anything more than the idea that the re-apportioning of wealth will be most easily realised if all people are brought up to speed on the shortcomings of our current system.

Far easier to introduce change when people see the need.

Enforced shifting away from habituation to a life of excess 'll get those Nationalistic juices flowing.
The Nationalist tendency is more than alive and kicking in Europe.
The Nations with all of the stolen wealth have the most powerful armies.

We're in a bit of a mess right now.

I’m well aware of the powers and fears involved, and that’s why I’ve created a feasible system that isn’t required to take from the Rich and redistribute to the Poor, though I do sometimes use that language, but only to make my points more easily. The system I’m advocating is compatible with the yearnings of all strata of life’s diversities of ideas, values and wealths’ involved or not. Now, that may seem impossible, but I assure you, it is not as it’s like Keynes stated: “Why do we take gold out of the ground; hide it away in a vault; and call it a monetary system? We can do better than this…” That’s just paraphrasing him, but it makes the point visible, of how ridiculous the existing system is, and was then, to him. Not only do we have this ridiculous reserve banking system, that says; “Go yee into the world, and find more interest to repay principle, than exists…”; most have actually thought it’s a valid system__What a joke, if it wasn’t so deadly serious, of causing all the poverty, crime and wars…

But, and here’s the big Question; “How do we really educate the people to these sorry facts, and maintain order…?”rrr

P.s.
Can we learn to listen, to all perspectives possible...?

[SB_UK]

Keynes

From a second source

Finding it very difficult to throw off the feeling that Keynes started off with high ideals, discovered that people could not be convinced (using a rational argument) to be good -
and so engineered a system which would eat itself alive.

Keynes

1908
'Indian Currency and Finance'
(teaching Keynes the huge mess which money seeds)

1919
An insightful analysis of the Council of Four - into human nature.

He resigned because he thought the Treaty of Versailles was overly burdensome for the Germans.

1920 - 1940
Keynes’s ideas took a dramatic change, however, as unemployment in Britain dragged on during the interwar period, reaching levels as high as 20 percent.

??? Date ???

“There is no objection to be raised against the classical analysis of the manner in which private self-interest will determine what in particular is produced, in what proportions the factors of production will be combined to produce it, and how the value of the final product will be distributed between them.”

Of course, once policymakers had taken deficit spending to heart, they did not let it go.

Deficit spending (living in debt) appeals to the animal within - because it means gain,gain,gain for no pain; unfettered greed.

Keynes knew.

'muahahahaaa - it's for your own good - savages'

The 'Cambridge apostles', 'Bloomsbury Set' and his wife were all artists - there's absolutely no chance that he believed that a mechanical system which treated human beings as raw materials 'd work.

~*~

Our history is characterized by little smelly people preaching love -
- all of whom fail.

Far better to hire a mathematically trained economist and scientist to come up with a financial system to take us to our doom - with a scientific system to help us emerge out from the despair (on the other side).

Sole requirement - for the economist and scientist to know the simple truth and for them to be sufficiently intelligent (Keynes) to dress up the nonsense in long words and abstruse notation (to keep out the prying weak mind of greed).

Note - the mind of greed is far less than the mind of wisdom (is not capable of abstract (strictly relatively) thought) -
- would not have been able to see past the page after page of mathematical symbols -

- and so would have swallowed the simple words which Keynes offered by way of synopsis.

Examples of the pretty words which he used to dress up what became our current global economic Ponzi scheme being
(from that webpage) -

--- 'demand as the sum of consumption'
- a simple idea which anybody can understand
ref. BurgerKing's ad campaign 'You wannit - you gottit'
- though which can't (of course) work if we're behaving like a species of locusts (which we were/are).
ref. Mr Smith accusing Neo of 'you humans being virulent'
Greed (Unrequited demand) requires an Unfettered financial system to allow itself to eat itself to death -
ref. Monty Python's Mr. Creosote and his 'wafer thin mint'.

'stabilize prices'
- a simple idea which people would applaud
- though prices shoudln't be stable - they should reflect scarcity. If we're running out of something - the price needs to increase.
Supply (planetary) regulates Demand.
if the planet can't supply - then demand need be forcibly quashed.

'Why shouldn’t government, thought Keynes, fill the shoes of business?'
- a simple idea which people would applaud
- however, imagine how the private corporation would protest. Can a system of competition between a powerful government and a more wealthy private sector work? If the Government is reliant on private sector funding
ref. the influential private corporation political lobby groups in America
- then no.

'full employment'
- a simple idea which people would welcome
- though one really needs to take into account the needs and limitations of man before a suitable landscape for employment can be tendered. Are people happy doing what they're doing is the question here?

I saw this in France a few days ago.

Dans un monde où l’économie n’est plus au service de l’homme mais l’homme au service de l’économie, les objectifs de productivité et les méthodes de management poussent les salariés jusqu’au bout de leurs limites. Jamais maladies, accidents du travail, souffrances physiques et psychologiques n’ont atteint un tel niveau. Les histoires d’hommes et de femmes que nous rencontrons chez les psychologues ou les médecins du travail, à l’Inspection du Travail ou au conseil de prud’hommes nous révèlent combien il est urgent de repenser l’organisation du travail.

In a world where the economy no longer services the requirements of man but man instead services the economy (the machine), productivity targets and methods of management are pushing employees to the end of their limits.
Never have diseases, accidents, physical and psychological suffering in the workplace reached such an astounding level.
The stories of the ordinary men and women we meet are told here -
their stories reveal an urgent need to rethink the organization of work.

~*~

Will stop there - it really does strike me that Keynes intentionally set the global economy on 'self-destruct'

- whilst 'spinning' his mathematical models by claiming that the consequence of applying his Theory 'd be for people to receive the very 'things' which they seemed to want.

Keynes pandered to human greed as the only way forward.

And he was right.

Money is bad
- Keynes saw to it - good and proper.

There is no doubt that the dark side has more fun .