East Meets West Logic...

[SB_UK]

Thomas Paine had passed the legendary limit of life. One by one most of his old friends and acquaintances had deserted him. Maligned on every side, execrated, shunned and abhorred – his virtues denounced as vices – his services forgotten – his character blackened, he preserved the poise and balance of his soul. He was a victim of the people, but his convictions remained unshaken. He was still a soldier in the army of freedom, and still tried to enlighten and civilize those who were impatiently waiting for his death. Even those who loved their enemies hated him, their friend – the friend of the whole world – with all their hearts.

On the 8th of June, 1809, death came – Death, almost his only friend. At his funeral no pomp, no pageantry, no civic procession, no military display. In a carriage, a woman and her son who had lived on the bounty of the dead – on horseback, a Quaker, the humanity of whose heart dominated the creed of his head – and, following on foot, two negroes filled with gratitude – constituted the funeral cortege of Thomas Paine.

Good man.
Paine stood for empowerment of his fellow man and an end to hierarchical society.

It's refreshing to discover an individual who was driven to do what was right.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

... ... valid up until ToE
- at ToE (though), 'everything' unravels.

The sensation is of the mind (at ToE) being able to separate what's important from the rest of the very vast amount of information which we appear to be immersed in.

In the end, all of the most important thoughts can be thought for oneself
- do not need expert opinion.

No, it's not quite that simple SB. Just try and figure out the simple problem of everyone entering the foreign exchange markets, for the same profit and trade purposes, where there must always be winners and losers, then realize all these foolish votes, that empowered our politicians and lawyers, involved in the middle of all contracts and decisions of, and you'll quickly see it's going to still be quite complex, no matter how much is learned of ToE. Economics makes ToE look like K1, where complexity is concerned__No matter what system, and we know we need a very complex transition system, to any better system and order, due to present contract's lifespan__30+ years...

[SB_UK]

No, it's not quite that simple SB. Just try and figure out the simple problem of everyone entering the foreign exchange markets, for the same profit and trade purposes, where there must always be winners and losers, then realize all these foolish votes, that empowered our politicians and lawyers, involved in the middle of all contracts and decisions of, and you'll quickly see it's going to still be quite complex, no matter how much is learned of ToE. Economics makes ToE look like K1, where complexity is concerned__No matter what system, and we know we need a very complex transition system, to any better system and order, due to present contract's lifespan__30+ years...

Personal hatred of the system aside, I don't think that the system has 30 years left in it.

Going off feel alone, it feels as though we're about to experience a dramatic drop in availability of money; a cascading effect which will be so much more significant than the already significant drop we've just seen.

The reason for this belief rests in housing (unsustainably high house prices) -
- people can't afford to buy and as soon as prices drop - will hand their keys back to the bank which'll be saddled with a fatal liability as they discover that they cannot recoup their original loan

- a collapse in the housing market spells the end for the current banking system.

~*~

I can't see a fair method for fixing the system; it's already too late; apparently house prices are on the increase again.

~*~

Remarkable how expensive a few piles of hardened and clear sand connected to an electrical and water pipe have become.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Economics 1001...

Capitalism Collapses --> Debt Overload --> New System Is Built --> 30+ Year Debt Still Exists As Live Contract Obligations...

New System Must Have A Debt Canceling Ability Built In --> Keynes' Full Blown 'Bancor' Had Such A Method --> Also Requires Complete Foreign Exchange Currency and Contract Rebalancing Built In --> Keynes' System Also Included This Method --> Stupid America Blocked It In 1944-`45...

Must Institute Full Blown Keynes' System --> With Sliding Time Scaler Laws --> To Allow Debt Canceling Mechanics To Function Slowly --> Without Flooding The World With Too Much Money And Credit --> Which Would Only Create Re-Collapse...

It's The Time Scaler Of Law Implementations That Are The Extreme Importance --> The Supreme Mechanics Of Currency --> Globally...

Keynes Saw It All --> We Need Only Understand Him --> His Unpublished Private And Public Government Papers And Letters...

Keynes' 'Bancor' Solves All World Problems --> Iff, But Fully Understood And Implemented --> Carefully Over Proper Time-Scale...!!!

Personal hatred of the system aside, I don't think that the system has 30 years left in it.

Going off feel alone, it feels as though we're about to experience a dramatic drop in availability of money; a cascading effect which will be so much more significant than the already significant drop we've just seen.

The reason for this belief rests in housing (unsustainably high house prices) -
- people can't afford to buy and as soon as prices drop - will hand their keys back to the bank which'll be saddled with a fatal liability as they discover that they cannot recoup their original loan

- a collapse in the housing market spells the end for the current banking system.

~*~

I can't see a fair method for fixing the system; it's already too late; apparently house prices are on the increase again.

~*~

Remarkable how expensive a few piles of hardened and clear sand connected to an electrical and water pipe have become.

[Mikal]

Kicking the players rather than the ball of the idea is what goes nowhere on TQ.

Shermer…

Patternicity
December 2008

Michael Shermer

Noun. The tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise

Why do people see faces in nature, interpret window stains as human figures, hear voices in random sounds generated by electronic devices or find conspiracies in the daily news? A proximate cause is the priming effect, in which our brain and senses are prepared to interpret stimuli according to an expected model. UFOlogists see a face on Mars. Religionists see the Virgin Mary on the side of a building. Paranormalists hear dead people speaking to them through a radio receiver. Conspiracy theorists think 9/11 was an inside job by the Bush administration. Is there a deeper ultimate cause for why people believe such weird things? There is. I call it “patternicity,” or the tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise.

Traditionally, scientists have treated patternicity as an error in cognition.

A type I error, or a false positive, is believing something is real when it is not (finding a nonexistent pattern). A type II error, or a false negative, is not believing something is real when it is (not recognizing a real pattern — call it “apatternicity”). In my 2000 book How We Believe, I argue that our brains are belief engines: evolved patternrecognition machines that connect the dots and create meaning out of the patterns that we think we see in nature. Sometimes A really is connected to B; sometimes it is not. When it is, we have learned something valuable about the environment from which we can make predictions that aid in survival and reproduction. We are the descendants of those most successful at finding patterns. This process is called association learning and it is fundamental to all animal behavior, from the humble worm C. elegans to H. sapiens.

Unfortunately, we did not evolve a Baloney Detection Network in the brain to distinguish between true and false patterns. We have no error-detection governor to modulate the pattern-recognition engine. (Thus, the need for science with its self-correcting mechanisms of replication and peer review.) But such erroneous cognition is not likely to remove us from the gene pool and would therefore not have been selected against by evolution.

In a September 2008 paper in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, “The Evolution of Superstitious and Superstition-like Behaviour,” Harvard University biologist Kevin R. Foster and University of Helsinki biologist Hanna Kokko test my theory through evolutionary modeling and demonstrate that whenever the cost of believing a false pattern is real is less than the cost of not believing a real pattern, natural selection will favor patternicity. They begin with the formula pb > c, where a belief may be held when the cost (c) of doing so is less than the probability (p) of the benefit (b). For example, believing that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is only the wind doesn’t cost much, but believing that a dangerous predator is the wind may cost an animal its life.

The problem is that we are very poor at estimating such probabilities, so the cost of believing that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind is relatively low compared with the opposite. Thus, there would have been a beneficial selection for believing that most patterns are real. Through a series of complex formulas that include additional stimuli (wind in the trees) and prior events (past experience with predators and wind) the authors conclude that “the inability of individuals — human or otherwise — to assign causal probabilities to all sets of events that occur around them will often force them to lump causal associations with non-causal ones. From here, the evolutionary rationale for superstition is clear: natural selection will favour strategies that make many incorrect causal associations in order to establish those that are essential for survival and reproduction.”

In support of a genetic selection model, Foster and Kokko note that “predators only avoid nonpoisonous snakes that mimic a poisonous species in areas where the poisonous species is common,” and that even such simple organisms as “Escherichia coli cells will swim towards physiologically inert methylated aspartate presumably owing to an adaptation to favour true aspartate.”

Such patternicities, then, mean that people believe weird things because of our evolved need to believe nonweird things.

Hi Austin….sorry to give you what might have been a long day of apprehension! Back to back shifts you understand.

I did a little research on Michael Shermer. I found his article on “Why I am an Atheist” also his other numerous articles referencing Atheism, his very strong support of Darwin, Why Darwin matters: the case against intelligent design‎…etc etc….Also found it interesting that he is president of the Skeptics Society.


Quote by John Ralston Saul: The Unconscious Civilization

“Control of the Western species of the human race seems to turn upon language. Anyone who has worked with language, from the devil on, has been in the business of spreading knowledge. They are not knowledge itself. They do not own it. They may have some talent or training or both. They may have a great deal of both. They will still be no more than the genius’s of dissemination.”

“Who is more contemptible than he who scorns knowledge of himself?” (John of Salisbury, 1159)

Then I wondered if scientists are supposed to be biased…Found this quote on a Science site where they documented this quote as by a famous scientist…

“In summary, the scientific method attempts to minimize the influence of bias or prejudice in the experimenter when testing an hypothesis or a theory.”

Is his work on Patternicity a theory? Yes it is ideology.


Oh my goodness I do believe he has offended his own scientific intellectual principles…

Regards Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi Austin….sorry to give you what might have been a long day of apprehension! Back to back shifts you understand. — Mikal

I didn't have any.


I did a little research on Michael Shermer. I found his article on “Why I am an Atheist” also his other numerous articles referencing Atheism, his very strong support of Darwin, Why Darwin matters: the case against intelligent design‎…etc etc….Also found it interesting that he is president of the Skeptics Society. — Mikal

Exactly. An educated guy.


Again, your post is full of generalities and devoid of any particulars concerning the content of patternicity, etc.

[melanie]

Real science is simple, Melanie__1+1=2__No complexity necessary...

But that's old school pseudo science.

1+1 = more of 1 that's real science.

There can never be two of one, otherwise that would be a clone of itself, we'd all be robots.
When people realize who they are not, only then will there be peace on earth, meanwhile, they are too busy being who they think they are, so no change for the better will come.

No worries though, the ONE is only playing hide and seek with itself, it's all a play/game.

The world may not be ready for non-duality, but maybe one day when they are sick and tired of all the hurting,
they will eventually succumb to the truth and say YES I am ready NOW....

Anyway Lloyd, I just want to put forward my vision to you and others. I like your feisty character Lloyd, and i like to come to your thread to read your pseudo knowledge, wisdom, and reasoning...
ps, i also love the very interesting interactions you are having between yourself and SB_UK.

It's nice to come here to find out what's going on in this dream..... It's entertainment, for when i have nothing better to do....

Love yer's all.

Mel, the last idiot...

[SB_UK]

30+ Year Debt Still Exists As Live Contract Obligations...

No money and surely all pre-existing contracts are null and void; a red line is drawn through all pre-existing debt, since unserviceable.

Any system (to carry over debt) would be unfair (unworkable also); how would one convert the collapsed currency into a new currency?
... ... and how would one avoid the criticism that carrying over and not starting afresh is seeding the new system with fatal flaws (the fundamental, fatal flaws which lead to the previous system collapsing).

The fundamental problem with the previous system was the debt model; debt doesn't work, we have to live within our means.

Real life, unlike monopoly money cannot be printed as and when we wish; the real world is limited.

And what'd happen next?

Deeds to {land,property} placed under collective ownership (much like the council home system pre-Margaret Thatcher)
An emergency one~wage salary system is issued to all people
People are requested to continue on with or wind-up their previous line of work.

We'll soon find out what is and what is not necessary
- which tasks people enjoy doing and which tasks people have only been doing for money.

What is necessary for an optimal lifestyle is a minimal level of food, water, heat and accessible to an Internet-ready computer.

These requirements may be delivered fully sustainably.

~*~

As ever, ensuring fair global transactions will be dramatically less necessary than it is currently, since global trade will be close to eliminated.

Transport costs will be prohibitively expensive as we enter a post-oil economy; rather than transport as many foreign products as we do currently to the individual, the individual will have the door opened to he herself travelling to local resources.

Having said this though, a global e-currency (all transactions recorded on an open computing system) just to discourage the local bully giving way to original sin and bullying people out of their money.
It'll be obvious (to any (all people) with access to the internet) - where an individual's money is going.

Why would an individual look after a property if he doesn't own it?
Because he still has to live there and will be offered a standard set of DIY equipment and expertise for free.

The individual can believe that it's his own property if he likes, however with the freedom to move whenever he pleases - by simply returning the keys.

[SB_UK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalism

1. The idea of a central world government.
2. The idea that global governance is better than national interest.
3. The idea of "harmonizing" national laws into and under a global body of law.
4. The idea that autonomy of nations is related to chauvinistic urges.
5. The notion that international trade agreements should be signed for a higher purpose despite disadvantages to either party.

Money, Law and National politics collapse.

1. The idea of a central world government.
since
2. ... global governance is better than national interest.
because we're in a global environment where
4. ... autonomy of nations is related to chauvinistic urges
(original sin breeds chauvinism (we're born into the divisive mentality)).

All property, land and raw materials are placed under control of 1.
A wage is issued by 1. to all people (electronically) which permits people to wind up their previous worplace (community-unfriendly) behaviours, whilst permitting the individual access to a basal level of food, water and information.

3. The idea of "harmonizing" national laws into and under a global body of law.
Human readable.
No more small-minded lawyers; see below for a proof of why lawyers cannot help but be immoral; the legal process actually makes people (would make any person) that way.

The law is not what people think - it's an ignorant, non-scientific tool which confers the lawyer with a level of power which (as ever with power) perverts, corrupts out of place the individual's (the lawyer's) sense of morality; everybody knows that the lawyer is a loathsome creature.
Exactly as described by Austin, one's particular profile of workplace behaviour has the power to alter the individual's mind; the lawyer operates in an environment where they are prevented from developing their own sense of morality - because they're expected to take the side of anybody who pays them.
Since money is bad (currently) - the law and lawyer cannot help but take on the properties of money.
The law becomes a bully.

5. The notion that international trade agreements should be signed for a higher purpose despite disadvantages to either party.
LLoyd's mechanism.

~*~

I honestly can't see global trade existing in 'stuff' soon - only in people.

An introduction of a system which encourages those who'd like to, to move from geographical location to location, as they choose.

A system which'll confer geographical location independence to people; will encourage worldly wisdom
- just because it's not your Nation does not mean that it's not your World, too.

[SB_UK]

No policies until people understand the mind (and its weakness)

cf

'original sin' is real; a very real attribute of the mind which is not yet wise.