East Meets West Logic...

[SB_UK]

"“Eclecticism” is a name given to a group of ancient philosophers who, from the existing philosophical beliefs, tried to select the doctrines that seemed to them most reasonable ... ...

... ... ... most reasonable

To be contrasted with the "Electicism" where despite pockets of promise, no serious philosophical stance was ever seen to be taken.

Philosophers appear to be of great use only to politicians in attempting to create the impression (to the electorate) of a principled approach.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

... ... ... most reasonable

To be contrasted with the "E[c]lecticism" where despite pockets of promise, no serious philosophical stance was ever seen to be taken.

Philosophers appear to be of great use only to politicians in attempting to create the impression (to the electorate) of a principled approach.

And that's the whole point SB, there is no serious philosophical stance. Philosophy is a methodological system of understanding our real world and selves, not philosophy. We all use philosophy to express ourselves, unless we also use psychological expression__It's our free choice...

Philosophy also did foist many un-principled approaches onto many a society in the past. That's not my intention by using philosophy. She also had many honest sages, but it's like all information systems, the mediocrity of societies always pushes the ignorance and ignorant to the top. People must be educated out of their mediocrity first, and what tools do we possess, but philosophy and psychology, to do the job? I choose philosophy over psychology because only philosophy has offered clear categorization methods, and we can do no cultural advance without clear distinctions of categories of information. Try using a computer without a FAT file...

p.s.
If you were to read "Charles Sanders Peirce, A Life", by Joseph Brent, it would make a grown man cry, to see how the mediocrity of this country, destroyed America's wisest sage...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

"Godel and the End of Physics" S.Hawking
http://www.hawking.org.uk/index.php/lectures/91-godelendofphysics?format=pdf

A New Look At Deduction__Logic, or It's Demise as Fundamental...
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/...907.2492v1.pdf
by Stuart Kauffman

BTW, what is this whole quantum/relative systems debate about, anyway? Einstein's formula E=MC^2 is a completely quantum formula of not only the quantum world, but the entire quantum universe__That's the entire universe. So, where's the mass and math gaps?

[Aiya-Oba]

Hi LIoyd Gillespie and MJA for your interest in Absolute Logic (equator of self-contradiction) : the eternal oneness of pair and self-creator of All in all (Cosmos).
The discovery of Absolute Logic as the equator of Spacetime has long gone beyond rhetorical logic to Natural logic, as in the physical sciences.

I see MJA, very much in resonance with the universality of Absolute Logic as the equator of Spacetime.
Absolute Logic has gone beyond human words to several independent experimental confirmations.

As shadows are shortest
at noon,
words are fewest
when baring truth. -Aiya-Oba
http://www.groups.google.com/group/s...b24952df4.html

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Hi Aiya-Oba, great to here from you again. Hope you'll be posting once in a while...

Thanks for the interest...

Hi LIoyd Gillespie for your interest in Absolute Logic (equator of self-contradiction) : the eternal oneness of pair and self-creator of All in all (Cosmos).
The discovery of Absolute Logic as the equator of Spacetime has long gone beyond rhetorical logic to Natural logic, as in the physical sciences.

As shadows are shortest
at noon,
words are fewest
when baring truth. -Aiya-Oba
http://www.groups.google.com/group/s...b24952df4.html

[Lloyd Gillespie]

I'm offering these two further jpg's to assist in understanding much of the already posted data on my posts here, and on my philosophy thread here: http://www.toequest.com/forum/genera...topias-15.html Questions may be directed in either thread, thanks...


And for the mathematicians and logicians:

[melanie]

We all use philosophy to express ourselves, unless we also use psychological expression__

It's our free choice...

The 'I' that claims to choose is just another thought... "I think I'll go to bed now"

there is no awareness of this thought... until it arises in awareness.. and as it arises
there is no choice to be aware of it... or not, for the 'subtle sensations' that seemingly manifest it are not separate from awareness.

As the thought arises, it already expresses the intent ('to go to bed')

thus, to choose an act, one would have to choose the thought that expresses the intent.

But to do this... one would have to know what one was about to think... before the thought arises.

So who would do this? .. No 'person' chooses to go to bed... or to do... or not do... anything at all

nor is it possible to change any apparent choice made by any 'person' in any 'story'
for then it would be a different story... and not the story it is.

All possible stories... all that can ever seem to be... already is....but not in appearance.

each appearance is 'momentary' displaying apparent events within a specific story
as if seen from the perspective of a 'specific creature in the story' this apparent moment...

the ONLY appearance is of these words on a computer in a room seen from the perspective of
("insert name of 'person' who now seems to be reading these words")

there are no other appearances being seen from any other perspective,
any 'where' or any 'when' else

for there is no 'other'… or any 'where' or any 'when' else

there is no person reading, just this appearance,
linked perhaps with some thoughts and feelings that label the experience as "me reading"

yet... all that appears... whatever appears... as it appears... appears by 'choice'... now

for every apparent moment is entirely 'unconditioned'... there is no 'past' flowing away... nor 'future' approaching.

It is only ever now...

including every possibility...

which may be instantly manifested in awareness now...

as colour -- sound -- feeling -- flavour -- odour -- number, form and meaning...

creating this play of 'life' -- this is power indeed.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Melanie, conflation of ideas is not a way, it's simple ambiguity and confusion of ideas. Awareness must be recognized distinctly, in its two forms__Conceptual / | \ Non-Conceptual. You are correct about actions arising from the non-conceptual self, but the conceptual side of the self clearly can see its actions first__Pre-handed, as a great singer or dancer practicing mentally for years, until they have it perfect...(/ | \ = logic symbol for: not same, but related)

The 'I' that claims to choose is just another thought... "I think I'll go to bed now"

there is no awareness of this thought... until it arises in awareness.. and as it arises
there is no choice to be aware of it... or not, for the 'subtle sensations' that seemingly manifest it are not separate from awareness.

As the thought arises, it already expresses the intent ('to go to bed')

thus, to choose an act, one would have to choose the thought that expresses the intent.

But to do this... one would have to know what one was about to think... before the thought arises.

So who would do this? .. No 'person' chooses to go to bed... or to do... or not do... anything at all

nor is it possible to change any apparent choice made by any 'person' in any 'story'
for then it would be a different story... and not the story it is.

All possible stories... all that can ever seem to be... already is....but not in appearance.

each appearance is 'momentary' displaying apparent events within a specific story
as if seen from the perspective of a 'specific creature in the story' this apparent moment...

the ONLY appearance is of these words on a computer in a room seen from the perspective of
("insert name of 'person' who now seems to be reading these words")

there are no other appearances being seen from any other perspective,
any 'where' or any 'when' else

for there is no 'other'… or any 'where' or any 'when' else

there is no person reading, just this appearance,
linked perhaps with some thoughts and feelings that label the experience as "me reading"

yet... all that appears... whatever appears... as it appears... appears by 'choice'... now

for every apparent moment is entirely 'unconditioned'... there is no 'past' flowing away... nor 'future' approaching.

It is only ever now...

including every possibility...

which may be instantly manifested in awareness now...

as colour -- sound -- feeling -- flavour -- odour -- number, form and meaning...

creating this play of 'life' -- this is power indeed.

[melanie]

Melanie, conflation of ideas is not a way, it's simple ambiguity and confusion of ideas.

Well I disagree, it's not really confusion is it, for example
a very young child, up until the age of 7-8 lives in a complete state of oneness with all things in it's environment.
I know this as a fact, because I was a teacher for 10 years.
Children are deliberately farmed to think, say, and do ONE WAY.
Now there's a paradox for you...

Children, who are the /our future, should be allowed to blossom into a free thinking individual,
instead do they just become another sheep at ''The Farm''

They become conditioned / brainwashed, and hopelessly entangled within the web of manmade ''belief systems''

Teach Metaphysics, the illusion of paradoxes and opposites in the nursery / at key stage 1 & 2
right up to university and why not ?

Perhaps then some of us might stop acting like stuck-up elitist ''know it all's''

In-stead we'll all just pee our pants laughing from finding out the truth about life reality and ourselves.

But then, I suppose if we all woke up to the truth of our so called reality,
it would be ''game-up'' for the other 'little people' who are laughing all the way to the bank.

Awareness must be recognized distinctly, in its two forms__Conceptual / | \ Non-Conceptual.
You are correct about actions arising from the non-conceptual self, but the conceptual side of the self clearly can see its actions first__Pre-handed, as a great singer or dancer practicing mentally for years, until they have it perfect...

And just as they achieve their personal perfectionism, they die, without ever realizing that they didn't have to achieve what they already ARE.

IT's all about the $$$$$$$$$ puppets for money.

Having said all that....there is nothing wrong with any of it.

IT IS AS IT IS---AS The play of lila....already perfect.

IT's HER PLAY.....''we'' are the least of HER

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Well I disagree, it's not really confusion is it, for example]

a very young child, up until the age of 7-8 lives in a complete state of oneness with all things in it's environment.
I know this as a fact, because I was a teacher for 10 years.

And I agree about this point of your's completely, Melanie...

Children are deliberately farmed to think, say, and do ONE WAY.
Now there's a paradox for you...

I don't see any paradox, you've simply spoken the truth...

Children, who are the /our future, should be allowed to blossom into a free thinking individual,
instead do they just become another sheep at ''The Farm''

They become conditioned / brainwashed, and hopelessly entangled within the web of manmade ''belief systems''

Teach Metaphysics, the illusion of paradoxes and opposites in the nursery / at key stage 1 & 2
right up to university and why not ?

And again Melanie, I agree completely with these points...

Perhaps then some of us might stop acting like stuck-up elitist ''know it all's''

In-stead we'll all just pee our pants laughing from finding out the truth about life reality and ourselves.

But then, I suppose if we all woke up to the truth of our so called reality, it would be ''game-up'' for the other 'little people' who are laughing all the way to the bank.

You know Melanie, all I've ever tried to state is that we must have clear distinctions between science and metaphysics, to achieve clear understandings of both__Not eliminations of either. I'm an a-theist, not an atheist...

And just as they achieve their personal perfectionism, they die, without ever realizing that they didn't have to achieve what they already ARE.

IT's all about the $$$$$$$$$ puppets for money.

And again Melanie, agreed...

Having said all that....there is nothing wrong with any of it.

IT IS AS IT IS---AS The play of lila....already perfect.

IT's HER PLAY.....''we'' are the least of HER

Don't ya think we ought to try our best to improve it...?