East Meets West Logic...

[labelwench]

Question__What about laws against lawyer's abusing the law...?_Crooks...?_Criminals...?_Greedomites...? I think that'd be a worthwhile effort__I don't really see how you could argue successfully against it__It's just a renewed respect for the esthetic and admirable. The transition must have and employ a valid law structure_no matter...
Originally posted by Lloyd Gillespie

Perhaps it has been discussed elsewhere on this thread, and I have missed it, but upon reading this post, a question came to my mind.

We have laws that mandate a minimum wage in most jurisdictions.

Why do we not have a ceiling on a maximum individual wage?
Or do we, and I am just unaware of it?

Collectives and corporations that earn excessive profits should be mandated to redirect those funds toward education, new technology and/or disaster relief, etc., any project which benefits the greater humanity.

Time to move away from 'tax shelters' toward an 'umbrella policy' or a 'rainy day fund' to maintain and improve the quality of life for all, with respect for the planet that sustains us.

Regards,

Labelwench

[SB_UK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes

He seems like a nice chap.

However, it feels (from a very quick reading of his wiki page) that his multiplier effect and desire to remove the gold standard were solely growth permissive measures (which perhaps they needed back then) -

- the problem is that growth needs to be checked when the point of inflexion is reached in some population parameter.

If growth is allowed to spiral out of control - then growth turns cancerous.

Closer to 'home' is the crash which Malthus describes in populations when the population exceeds the carrying capacity of its environment.

How might one though arrest growth, especially when people consider growth attractive?

Keynes appears to understand human psychology in his development of the idea of 'price stickiness'
- price stickiness as the incapacity to do the right thing.

~*~

From my reading of Keynes, it's as though he's developed a system for his time, which he understood would collapse -
and collapse spectacularly
(when the time came)
- though not 'letting on' due to the inevitable consequences which would arise if he explained the truth underlying his system -
- those inevitable consequences entailing less than Universal uptake of his policies.

He needed Universal uptake of his ideas for them to work
and indeed
they were taken up Universally -
- and did work
(as we're seeing now)
... ... ... a testament to his intelligence.

~*~

Keynes appears to have switched his strategy from (early on) trying to convince people on what is right
into
developing a system which would appeal to the savage within and which would (when the time came) accomplish what is right, inadvertently.

He understood (through multiple failed efforts to openly attempt the right thing) that doing the right thing could not work as long as the savage within (original sin)
ruled -

- ruled the mind
- selfish gain leading us seemingly inexorably to collective ruin.

He needed to burn out and expose
- to burn out by raising a mirror to society -
to burn out by bringing human greed to the attention of people
- all people
- all people in a manner that they were forced to act
- forced to act through *self* preservation.

To burn out the self through appealing to its defining character - selfishness.

I think that Keynes sought to rid us of the human self by placing it within a confound of such irredeemable nature that the message

'an unrecoverable error has occurred'

was set to flash across, in front of all of our faces

'please restart society from scratch'

Presumably Keynes was dealt his lesson in the unrelenting ignorance (as it had to be) of man
- by the lessons learnt from his interactions with people, politicians, lawyers and bankers ... ... ...

Presumably Keynes formulated this strategy through necessity following proper consideration of the challenges which the unrelenting ignorance of man placed in our way
- an understanding of which was gained following lessons learnt from his interactions with people, politicians, lawyers and bankers :

politicians (refusing to take up his ideas on helping and instead electing to cripple post-war Germany), in observing the savagery within people (people wanting Germany to be crippled neither helped nor rehabilitated) and then in his association with bankers (Lord Cunliffe) and the law (Lord Sumner) who (of course) similarly ... ... ...

- lawyers know only force
- must now themselves be made to feel the force of public feeling of the hatred which the law itself seeds.
To be helped to feel ashamed of themselves -
- to themselves see the need for ... ...
... ... as a necessary precursor
to
change -

- to change
- since we appear to be locked down within as close as we'll ever get to Hell whilst the engineered immoral advocates of confusion
license
- to reign free.

We've a recorded human history of mob rule in which the mob which rule are ruled by their savage within (original sin).

~*~

The suggestion then that Keynes placed us, completely intentionally on a

one way ticket to nothingness

... ... ... a one way ticket to nothingness which we'd be better for (afterwards)
- albeit after a period of mildly disorientating change.

A tale of convergence in which all lines simultaneously coalesce -

epiphany

... ... ... religion (ref. apocalypse (bible)), classical science (ref. the mechanism of emergent evolution) and astronomy,astrology (ref. planetary eversion) to name but the first three which come to mind.

All schools of thought from the ancient to the mystical
- the establishment to its competing model
appear
to have come together.

~*~

The sole profile which we need embrace
- and which no individual will object to deference to
- is the growth curve.

The population growth curve has been shown, time after time to represent the kinetics of growth
- where -
the next phase of human endeavour is going to need to be aligned with the prophetic pattern of the growth curve

- if we choose to ignore a global unambiguous pattern which occurs -
- which is sewn into the very fabric of evolution
-then-
much as we insist that night does not follow day

- it will

- and we'll be made to feel the pain of allowing (through apathy) our lesser (savage selves) to have dictated policy.

~*~

We are going to need to sink back into synchrony with our environment.
We're running out of physical space, physical stuff -
- not everybody can have what the average Westerner has -
- we just don't have enough and can't generate any fresh oil, phosphorus, gold ... ... ....

eco nomics
- to develop ecologically sustainable systems and to re-orientate our need for exponential growth into domains without physical restraints
without constraint -
- the virtual milieu.

Think and think and think and think and think ... ... ...... ... ... and we'll all be better for it.

Continue as we're all and Occam's razor'll shave off a billion or two.

[SB_UK]

He needed Universal uptake of his ideas for them to work
and indeed
they were taken up Universally -
- and did work
(as we're seeing now)
... ... ... a testament to his intelligence.

The 1971/2 removal of the gold standard alongside formation of the EEC were engineered to co-incide.

1971
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Post-war_international_gold_standard

and

1972
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community#Enlargement_and_electi ons

[Lloyd Gillespie]

The 1971/2 removal of the gold standard alongside formation of the EEC were engineered to co-incide.
1971
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Post-war_international_gold_standard
and
1972
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community#Enlargement_and_electi ons

Yes SB and LW, you are both absolutely correct in your assessments, as far as they take the intelligences of those and these moments of histories, but there's a great deal more to this yet untold story... I'll be getting back to both of your posts, in their entirety, a bit later_btw, excellent posts, thanks...

For now, I'll just mention, as SB has noted in this post of, the Prime Important historic dates of `71 and `72, that these were the tombstone dates of the 'Deaths of True Keynesianism...' Nixon, and others of the world leaders failed to ever understand total Keynesianism, which should have been repaired and extended, at this period__but was instead killed__for the rabbid dog of the unbridled expansion of free market greed_ unprescedented in world history__raping the land and its innocent peoples...

Wrong Move...!!!

Intelligence was traded for stupidity... Most think the problem is a personal greed problem__It's not__It's a purely governament intelligence problem__Absolute lack of intelligence over the greed machine... Greed can be eversed/inversed at the gov. law level, and only at the gov. law level...

Personal Greed / | \ Public Greed

What truly is eversionary greed...?rrr

"There's profit in virtue and philanthropy, at the public level_we just must learn the system of = extended Keynes_iff it truly works the real public good for all..." me

Later...(a bit busy today)...

p.s.
The entirety of Keynes' system is not fully in his published books, or most of history's sources, such as Wiki or any others. It's in his inter-governmental papers, of the era of his life's work. The only reputable authors of this mentioned work are by Paul Davidson, in America, and Paul Einzig and Robert Skildelsky in your country, England. Einzig's is a bit rough to gather the information from, as it's scattered in his 65 books, of which I've read 64. The 65th is in lockdown at Harvard_too expressive of the secrets of the Rich_'The Dynamic Theory of Forward Exchange_1936'. Skildelsky's four volumes of Keynes' life is the best source. Davidson is the best over-all theory of how the world of Keynes' international finance can work the true public good. Sidney Weintraub(studied in London's School of Economics_`38, `39) was Paul Davidson's professor on Keynesianism, and co-publisher of The Post-Keynesian Journal here in America, who also has the/some major pieces of Keynes' best inter-gov. thoughts. Lionel Robbins from your country isn't bad either, though more his own thinker, of The Austrian School of Economics_But his history of America's last 'The Great Depression' is excellent(int. bonds and debt assessments, etc.)...

[SteveA]

We don't need any laws regarding money at all, including an enforced use of a specific currency. Let people use whatever they want or even barter and noone should be able to force someone to take paper in exchange for their property (eminent domain).

Yes, we had Great Depression very shortly after we stopped using gold and switched to a national paper currency and I remember being told in school that it was because foreign countries were buying up the gold because holding it at a fixed price made it cheaper to buy (that's like 3 layers of spin and of course that's the government school version). It's so obvious what happened - they couldn't print up enough gold to fund enough wars, government agents and police etc., so they told people to stop using gold and accept paper instead (you don't need to do any real work and provide anything of value to print paper)

Property taxes are like communism to me - you get charged "rent" on something you should own. Wait for the clothing taxes ... it's a priviledge to own clothes you know. Or the day when you have to rent to the "world" (as represented by some self proclaimed global representative) for using some of the resources.

Personally I wouldn't care if there was something like 15% income tax split between various local, state and federal government, but once they get their cut they shouldn't need to come back for anything else (wait till they have a savings account tax and then they might as well just declare everyone's a "public" slave and the wishes of the "public" are determined by a few select "public" representatives).

But it's gone past fixable, IMO and most people are so confused they wouldn't even know how to fix it if they tried (yes, they'd believe they were fixing it though but wondering why more and more fixes are needed).

Here's the simple remedy: Get rid of the whole thing and say "Hi" to the neighbors.

SB_UK, you mentioned we needed more fun in life and I totally agree and I agree there are a lot of steps to hitting that "perfect" spot. It's like trying to target a pebble on the backside of the Moon, but there is path and it's just overflowing in beauty. I admit it seems like it's either hundreds of years down the road or more (assuming we even make it), but then again it could be just right around the corner and we've been looking in the wrong spots.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

We don't need any laws regarding money at all, including an enforced use of a specific currency. Let people use whatever they want or even barter and noone should be able to force someone to take paper in exchange for their property (eminent domain).

And we're all dead...!!!rrr

↔ ⇔ ≡

Logical symbols
representing iff. Link
Hitler bartered ↔ ⇔ ≡ Schachtianism LINK ↔ ⇔ ≡ Mefo bills of barter exchange LINK

[SB_UK]

On the (!) 5 or so pages I've read by Michael Perelman
- he seems to be making a great deal of sense ... ...

for example

The end of economics, Michael Perelman
~s ource~
Just the first paragraph of chapter 9 is enough .. ...

~s ource~

'The concept of depletion has been disappeared from economics by assuming that markets somehow take account of scarcity. At the same time, economists understand that business has a 10 to 20% hurdle rate, meaning that investment is not worth pursuing unless you can be virtually certain of a 10 to 20% rate of return. By that calculation, the entire world would depreciate away to relatively little value in a couple centuries.
I dealt with all this in a different book, The Perverse Economy, where I told the story of the passenger pigeon. It turns out that the price of pigeons remained virtually constant as the entire species disappeared into extinction.'

~s ource~
Keynes and animal spirits
... ... ... the animal within (original sin)

~s ource~
Capitalism needs crises. These crises, however, can destroy capitalism ... ...

[SB_UK]

Takes a brave man to announce the approaching death of his chosen discipline.

toot toot !

All change ... ... ...

Ved -anta
The end of knowledge

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Toot Toot__Not Yet...!!!

Sb, here's an e-mail I just received from Dr. Paul Davidson:rrr
Davidson, Paul to me
show details 2:02 PM (4 hours ago)

I think you might be interested in a book review in THE ECONOMIST of three books about Keynes including my book THE KEYNES SOLUTION: THE PATH TO GLOBAL ECONOMIC PROSPERITY. (Click on the link below.)

http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14539560

Today’s economic problems involves the largest global downturn since the Great Depression. Ultimately, however, the reviewer declares that the policies I developed for the 21 century global economy from Keynes’s ideas and philosophy for ending the Great Depression and creating a full employment global economy after the second world war are “to most others[ mainstream economists? politicians? powerful interest groups?] .... solutions that are outmoded and unworkable”.

Aren’t these “most others” the same people who for the past three decades have advocated government de-regulation of financial markets, no constraints on international capital flows (which led to the contagion of a U.S. sub-prime market collapse to threaten the global banking community), free trade with flexible exchange rates, and perfectly flexible prices and wages so that any unemployment problem can always be eliminated by removing any social safety net that protects the unemployed and thereby force unemployed workers to choose to accept lower wages or see their family starve to death? These classical policies are ultimately based on the ideas espoused by 18th century Adam Smith and 19th century classical economists such as David Ricardo and Leon Walras.

Does the Book Review Editor really believe these ideas of 18th and 19th century economists are not “outmoded" and unfounded or worse merely because “most others i.e., mainstream economists,still cling to such failed ideas and policies rather than face the reality of Keynes’s analysis of how modern market oriented, money using economies actual operate?

Michael Perelman, is a Marxist leaning economist, which all serious people know has failed, and will always fail_It's not a system of law_It's a dreamer's dream_gotta be grounded in real law and debt mechanics, to work... A better environmentally/agriculturally oriented economist to read/rely on would be Herman Daly__Actually sensible and honest...

"In “The Return of the Master” Robert Skidelsky takes a different tack. As the author of a magisterial three-part biography of Keynes, Mr Skidelsky knows more about him than any other scholar. He now tries to refocus Keynesianism in the public mind—and in doing so claims that most modern economics is bunk." Skidelsky

Takes a brave man to announce the approaching death of his chosen discipline.

toot toot !

All change ... ... ...

Ved -anta
The end of knowledge

[SB_UK]

... but then again it could be just right around the corner and we've been looking in the wrong spots.

do you have a strange kinda' tickly throbby thing in the centre of your head ?



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