East Meets West Logic...

[SB_UK]

~s ource~

~ ~ ~(o)~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~(o)~ ~ ~ is direction
(from Prof Pat's image)

~ ~ ~(())~ ~ ~ are electro and magnetism
(from Prof Pat's image)

~*~

The butterfly evident in both images (above).

[SB_UK]

toot toot!

(and now?)

[SB_UK]

.........

East Meets West Logic... and geometry

n>24 (Rayleign no.) wikiP/Lorenz attractor

revolution

[SteveA]

From the cradle to the grave, times moves through us.

Even if we choose not to leave the room of our birth, we are going to gain experience, albeit perhaps a very introspective form.

Perhaps this person is merely a 'brain connected to life support'.

I think it's more of the other way around the mind or consciousness etc. is the life support but for all forms of experience.

With the advent of marvellous technology, this being could be wired into all of the audio and visual documentation on earth.

Though they be 'greedy' for neural stimulation, and they ultimately experience it all, from our ancient origins through to the latest developments, as they happen, this being shall still be unsatisfied.

That's one of the reasons to find the things that really matter and are most important to oneself. The unknown or future/past etc. don't in themselves create anything of value. They simply reflect the things that already have been of value in life in different ways.

For example, look through your life and find some of the best things in it. In many ways everything ties together and all the components of life needed to be there to make it as it is but these included a variety, good and bad, health and sickness, pleasure and pain etc. and that's the basic character if one just drifts and lets life happen to them. Now you can't avoid this to an extent as you're growing - you don't yet know much about life and there's no direction - it just appear to happen.

But I don't think life is really meant just to happen, nor just to learn. Some learning appears inevitable simply because time requires change and things must change, and for me that was something particularly frustrating for a long time in some of my ideas on how everything "fit together". If everything good required something bad to contrast it, then that's a "zero sum" game.

But this is only what you get when passively moving through life and while still learning and building ones own values, attributes etc.

The learning can slow though, and instead of time figuratively passing as something to "grow oneself" and life being a character building challenge/struggle, if you feel confident that you have a solid sense of self that can endure, there's much less need to to try to refine yourself more and instead you can use that time to change the rest to make it match better the desires of that self.

Life is a challenge but I think it's also often made more of a challenge than is really necessary. There are many ways in which one can impede themself just from habits or fear of losing control of what one is etc.

There are some things that appear beyond control and likely will always remain beyond control in time, but this unknown has been around since birth and intuition and faith can "see further" than deterministic logic because they don't require every last dot in every dimension to be filled in and so they can give the general character of possibilities instead, and whoever/whatever has been running the show has done ok so far, but you've got to give life some feedback and decide whether or not to continue to make it a developing struggle or have you found the things that are most important along with a good internal compass and care to keep them?

(continued...)

[SteveA]

(continued ...)

Try this for a bit. Just take all your best hopes and dreams and look at life as it is now and begin to see if there are ways that life can become something matching those. If there's something you're not certain about or if something appears to bother you then dig down and find what that is and add it to that picture, find a way to include it as well.

I'm serious. It may be that we do end up having technology that for most all intents and purposes could do anything we could imagine. Now how do things head if that's the case?

It's really worth quite a bit of consideration and it needs a long term view and it needs the emotions and the sustainence and beauty and diversity etc. Without a good picture of how the future should look, we'll just be continuing the ups and downs, but though life has learning, it's wasn't meant to be entirely passive observation as science often portrarys it.

I think if you really dig and put your whole heart into it, you can find something so beautiful that there's nothing else that would ever be worth settling for - that's the only "stable" spot in the entire picture (and to me it's not really even a static state, it's both a "particle", in that it doesn't change - the "core" of you doesn't alter, but it's always a "wave", in that it's dynamic and growing experience relative to that stable core/values/character), everything else is the scenary for it, because there would never be anything else worth stopping for.

Now consider that this "best" state is not simply a point in time but a complete manner of life and experience - it's a context to everything and in that sense it's already there as soon as you find it - it's living the dream, all the desires packed away in life, but recognize that it's not a craving for things that are beyond ones ability to know or determine either, that's not one of the "best" things - addictions to unknowns and rolls of the dice, though some of the best things can be exploration, it's not the best thing to leave the specific results of that exploration to determine a success or failure, the exploration in itself is the reward and one of those best things that are under ones own control.

So it's a matter of learning ones limits as well as ones strengths and desires, retaining ones character and aligning all their desires and actions toward the best possible (and there go the goosebumps again ).

Death is an unknown and the unknown, in itself, never had any value. The results of death aren't controlled and when life ends isn't entirely controlled either, but none of those uncontrolled things ever had any value to oneself - there was nothing that was loved tomorrow, there were only things that were beautiful "now" and only oneself knows what those things of value are in life and if you've "paid the dues" making it through life and managed to hang on this long , and if you think you've built a stable enough center for who you are and it's something you can love and trust, then let go and drop the internal chains - you're strong enough to lead life instead of being led by it Pick the very best direction in life, explore all the possibilities and do that 5 times over (and twice more just for fun ) until you've found something so beautiful that it could never leave you and then take your first "real" step in life and being to shape it like your best hopes and dreams. That's how life was meant to be. Time ties us all together and I don't even think death alters that and it might take a thousand years or more to see a humanity or a universe that matches those dreams, but it wouldn't matter how long it takes because those dreams are ultimately the only things that are worth pursuing.

We are a 'life support system' for our own unique perspective.

Yes, we're all part of a larger perspective, though it's only value is of the things we find and the values and meaning we find/create/discover. There really more significant than oneself, but that includes "everything" already because the larger picture is really just another unknown and not important to ones own self.

Consider that your own body is a universe for all the cells within it as well and you are also, at least in a physical sense, the life support for many other lives as well ... we're also cells of life for the universe too and these are synchronized in time and act together on scales beyond imagination. Nothing in awareness is disconnected (awareness is the personal "clock" that unites or synchronizes all conscious experience) and this even includes "lifeless" matter (but what do we really see matter in terms of? Conscious qualities, tastes, textures, colors, forms and matter can even be included in intangible concepts etc.)

To close, 'greed' is nothing more than the misplaced competition which ensures the survival of the individual and their offspring.

There are many things in life that people need or want, but I think greed is, similar to my comments above, wanting the unknowns - trying to have "more", but "more" itself is never "enough" and won't ever satisfy. That's nature pushing people to grow, but not necessarily a rut that the mind wants to get stuck in.

And I think with more insight and intelligence and a broader view that encompasses a wider range of the desires of many there are ways to satisfy most all of these things except the impossible, like "always more" and "never enough".

That's again one of those reasons to "turn around" from looking at the unknowns in the future and look at all the things that have already been satisfying in life and those aren't unknowns for which we have no control, but instead those form the possibilities of experiences made by our choices (the unknowns will still come, but we can limit the need for and influence by them and select how to combine all these experiences from the past and create a better future instead of waiting for it to randomly happen).

We are insecure for ourselves and our children, and looking around, this does not seem a totally unreasonable atitude to have.

Yes, values are created in all areas of experience. Every one, good and bad is important in knowing what the best things are.

Until we can offer a collective sense of caring and security, the individual response is entirely logical.

Yes, and in some ways it's the only possible response - I think we tend to pay too much attention to other peoples lives and even regarding issues in places that someone might have never even stepped foot.

Focusing in the immediate "now" and ones own life, and all the experiences that contain it is already something immense There's plenty stored away there right now and as well as abilities to shift ones own life toward their desires - we're all connected in time and we're not alone either. If the universe has managed to keep things running for this long and we've still not seen that rouge asteroid that was suppose to wipe out life on Earth, then maybe a little faith in the unknown is deserved. If Mother Nature was intent on "taking out" humanity, she could have done it easily at any time. No, I think she's enjoying the show too

Redirecting this response is more probable than eliminating it, I would suggest.

Yes, that's what I think also. Learning takes time (sometimes it's frustratingly slow), but it also takes motion and if that motion comes from greed and cravings, well I think it's better than no motion at all. The beauty is when a large enough picture is seen and all the patterns pulled together on all levels of knowledge, experience, desires and beliefs etc. and then watching the stars align Then you can "let go" some on the learning and in many ways self imposed hardships because you've got a beautiful star to navigate through life with and it doesn't change with the time of day, nor the economy, nor democratic opinion etc. It's just the diamond that you made for yourself ... and each is a little unique and it's perfectly good to show, share and pass them around - it's not something that needs to be entrusted to fragile care, nor can someone else drop it or lose it, it's beyond that and you really can't physically show all of it to someone anyway but there is a continual process involved and people can still refine it and make it better, and swap ideas too for what to grow from it

As always, have fun (unless you don't want to! )

[labelwench]

As always, have fun (unless you don't want to! )
Originally posted by SteveA

Interestingly enough, I most usually have 'fun' in pretty much all that I do, and even find great satisfaction in my 9 to 5, which would seem to fly in the face of the beliefs of some.

After all, I chose the jobs I now have, and if they cease to give me satisfaction, I shall just go and seek another. Choice is incredibly empowering.

Back to the 'fun' bit.

For quite some time, I was troubled by the fact that so many around me were not happy, yet happy enough to complain of all their misfortunes. So, I speak very little of how much satisfaction I find in living day-to-day, for concern that I might incurr their ire or envy.

Beyond the inheritence of seemingly tough genetics, there is nothing that I have accomplished that any other could not also accomplish.

I chose to work bloody hard so that I might also play hard. Nothing has been 'handed to me', and I have selected venues that are very difficult for some to handle, as nature takes care of the competition, and I have only to concentrate on the chosen task.

My choices have worked for me, and I can only wish that the choices of others are equally pleasing to them. Yet, if they are not, I no longer care to wear the burden of unhappiness or guilt, on behalf of another. I cannot assume responsibility for their choices.

By my efforts, I may assist in many ways to keep opportunities for choice equal for all, yet what is made of the opportunities is up to the individuals involved.

Life is not 'fair'.

Life affords opportunity.

Therefore, make of life, what one will, and accept the responsibility for as little or as much, as one may choose to make of it.

[SB_UK]

Redirecting this response is more probable than eliminating it, I would suggest.

Desire might be able to get us out of that hole which insists that it's not worth getting out of bed in the morning, because nothing really matters.

As long as there's pain there's some place we need run from
- though what if there was no pain?

Would it matter if we were inert ... if we didn't particularly care?

It's nice to have a goal which we ourselves did not set.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

A Gov. God-Head of True Power_Intelligence Can’t Be Linked to Power Til Power Is Defined…
The Rightful Symmetrical God-Head Power of Government…
The Symmetric Incentive Power of Proper Government…
‘Intelligence added to greed(larger perspective and longer term view) turns to wisdom…’ S.A.
Intelligently defined power over the greed machine…
The Laws of Greed:
#1.Principal demanded beyond principal issued, creates greed…
#2.A % of principal, gov. issued beyond principal plus interest, ends greed…
#3. Islamicphilosophy’s zero interest rate banking through triple entry banking__Keynes’ bancor__One international currency à One wage distant future à The wisdom logic of greed’s full knowledge circle, and application of law’s computer controlled programs, over the greed machine…

The Paradigm Shift__From complexity to common sense__From empire to 1st community...
Ya 'gotta' have a simple scientific method, to teach a system...
‘IMO, we must start where we are, and that's truly embedded in this horrible system, then truly and fully grounded, figure our way back to sanity of incentives and intuitions, compatible with all our holistic desires.’ lg
‘That section really stuck out. Yes, we need to keep all of it. Anything less will just be a short diversion.’ S.A.

’I believe that the ideal is in many ways achievable right now - at this very instant and what it is, is simply combining all of ones desires and abilities, thoughts and feelings on all levels etc. into a continual and dynamic living of life__The greater the foresight, the more effective the changes. The greater the emotions, the more the drive and the further the changes are carried. The greater the perception and intelligence, the greater the diversity of options to select from and the more precise and realizable the goals, the greater the attention and accumulation of experience, more dynamically growing this is, into the future, etc.’ S.A.

’Yes, I think we need to see people unfold that "inner self" and then watch the balance in the world begin to shift. Skip evolution and the unknowns in quantum mechanics and start biasing your own rolls of the dice.’ S.A.

’The problem is that we can't behave like a system unless we understand the system. We're a part of the system which we're seeking to understand. The mind has a developmental path representing at its simplest level the actual conformational transition from immature (caterpillar) to mature mind (butterfly) - with maturity of mind (butterfly) comes wisdom. - repetitive motifs (ref. telly last night 'the sky at night') giving us deep understanding (belief) in the geometric regularity of (our) nature (reality) - in our own context within reality - in and of ourselves. - with maturity of mind (butterfly) comes wisdom - a state in which the individual needs to do the right thing for people first - for people (all people) under the newfound frame of mind of unshakeable understanding that what's best for people (all people) is best for the individual.’ SB

‘United we stand...divided we fall. Truer words were never spoken... ... under the newfound frame of mind of unshakeable understanding that what's best for people (all people) is best for the individual.’ MiKal
‘All that we require is scientifically backed (sensible) insight into our own mind - an insight which comes from development of a single consistent logical model which encompasses all aspects of reality which are immune from human intervention. So - abstract man out from the Universe (in a thought experiment) - develop a model which explains away all aspects of reality - all aspects of reality which we know to exist prior to the development of the human mind (observer). Examples, What is oxygen? What's a bar magnet? Why was life seeded? What existed prior to the Big Bang? - No requirement for provability…’ SB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_philosophy Islamicphilosophy
‘ref. Lloyd Gillespie's reference of Ibn Sina / Avicenna's introduction of inductive logics almost exactly 1000 years ago (good stuff) - sole requirement for the model to make sense - and to withstand empirical scrutiny in all of those aspects of the model which're open to empirical scrutiny. So ... an interconnected model which may be drawn in two colours - grey and black - Grey and Black making associative sense - black more formally empirically provably so. Grey - a suggestion of what existed pre Big Bang - a very real question which we may answer though forever unprovably. A model though which is consistent with everything we know to be true from investigations which are possible within our structure Universe of action. The model for whatever existed prior to the Big Bang must be compatible with everything we see around us today.’ SB

’What do we need ? we need an autonomously regulated mechanism for a sand timer to turn - and then a mechanism for evolution (autonomous geometric series) to be driven within the previously empty now filling lower chamber of the sand timer. Association between the sand timer and the biblical 'eye of the needle' - the mechanism of the black hole - the black hole reflecting the basic mechanism (at a level which the human eye can observe) - the basic mechanism of all structures within (and outside of our) reality. The eversion as the autonomous procedure by which the sand timer turns__ Eversion…The Holy grail is a depiction of the geometry of eversion. The autonomously regulate switch from, energy moves from upper to lower chamber, to chambers reversing as the upper chamber empties {{{recursion}}} energy moving from upper to lower chamber once more…’ SB
>-<







Continued...rrr

[Lloyd Gillespie]

continued...
’…- slinky eversion turning itself inside out (like a glove) in the process of transformation - the basis to 'bilateria' - that slightly off not quite 2d/3d symmetry which characterizes reality (particularly evident when we look in the mirror) - the 'off-white' symmetry which those with particularly gifted eyes have been able to observe. So - abstract out man and then following the exercise above - re-introduce man. Re-introduce man under renewed context of evolution. Of the mind as an evolutionary character. Of the mind as a product of evolution which is itself seeking to evolve. Complete this line of thought and we arrive back at the start of the Old Testament - the presence of a property residing within mind of man - a property which we're not able to see - since it itself is under development. The loss of individual selfish human greed (the old way - the savage within) as the collective human mind (wisdom, morality) takes over. A Higher evolutionary form.’ SB

‘Somehow, we must bring together, our scientific knowledge and our traditional knowledge, as it will require the combined skill and resources of both our 'left-brain history' and our 'right brain history' to pull us through. Much has been documented and archived in various mediums, yet much traditional knowledge is oral in nature, passed on generation to generation, through lineage and calling, that it not be edited or used for unseemly purpose…’ LW

‘It's the possiblitiy of holistic, overarching stewardship over sustainable natural resources that's hypothesised.’ Leskey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof Pat






~s ource~

~ ~ ~(o)~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~(o)~ ~ ~ is direction
(from Prof Pat's image)

~ ~ ~(())~ ~ ~ are electroand magnetism
(from Prof Pat's image)

~*~

The butterfly evident in both images (above).
__________________
[ nothing other thankillingmoneythe lawthe savage within(original sin) matters ]

And nothing is more true than__'From caterpillar to butterfly, we evolve our natural wisdom…’ (to be continued)rrr

[labelwench]

... ... we're evolving to that state of mind as we fall asleep on a Friday night
or
wake up on any particular morning not needing to do anything and particularly not needing to go into our waste of time 9 - 5.

Which waste of time 9-5?
All of them.

They're all (at least currently)
a huge waste of time
- are leading to backwards regression in our collective quality of life.
Originally posted by SB__UK

With respect to your opinions, SB__UK, I would agree that there is much redundancy, inefficiency, and lack of job satisfaction in many of our current 'employment opportunities', they being merely a means to keep money circulating, thereby supporting the current economic paradigm, which is considerably flawed, and possibly not salvageable.

Yet many perform tasks that have deep meaning to them, and our world would be a poorer place without them.

Every time I see an Ambulance, Fire Truck or EMO vehicle on the move, I think of my friends who are engaged in these tasks, often dangerous, and that they save lives and bring comfort to many.

Other friends provide home care and take the elderly and handicapped out shopping and to appointments, that they may remain independant as long as possible.

Even in my mission, securing the food supply, I work nights, and weekends, that those with families may adhere to the predominant work week, thereby participating in such social events as are scheduled for evenings and weekends.

Employment can be more than just a means for earning coin, and perhaps, as we move into the future, the workplace will afford more opportunity for actualization.

Here in the Yukon, we have a significant number of entrepreneurs and home-based businesses, not all of which are terribly lucrative, yet they provide that spark of imagination and independence, and people work amazingly hard for that privelege.

I know. I used to be one of them. For the present, it is more practical to 'take the money and run', as the revenuers were seldom satisfied by my ability to live on a pittance and thereby deprive them of income tax.

Regards,

Labelwench