East Meets West Logic...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Equal insanity for all, ha MJA...???rrr

Negative Times Negative Equals Positive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLm5lRxt1rE

$$$700 Billion Is Nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM79QpaxvOs

I don't question the truth, the truth is. TOE

=
MJA

[Mikal]

Yes, I tend to agree that the most important "technology" is resolving social (mostly political) issues. I think people need some elbow room to realign more naturally and beneficially (of course that's my opinion, but it does seem to me that we're too topheavy and that this tends to stagnate diversity and limits the areas of growth).

Technology that frees people up and enables them or gives room to adapt to new environments etc. seems good to me, whereas technology that pushes toward more Big Brother and the "clone wars" seems like a problem.

Technology is just a tool that enables things for better or worse. I think we already have plenty of energy for most things and most of the energy crises were just manipulations and man made (that's a subject I can ramble on about too LOL).

But yes, it would be nice to see a big happy family of humanity first (Yes, I know that's utopian, but why shoot for anything less than the best? Might as well aim as high as you can and then even if things only get halfway there, that's still a "win" IMO )

So yes, #1 technology - a peaceful and prosperous humanity (diversity I think works good too).

Sounds like a challenge, but definitely worth working toward.

Hi Steve...when we talk about the concept of "Utopia" are we really referring to essential archetypes of Ideals which simply reflect our highest vision of possibilities for us and for the world.

Arn't there ideals of justice, ideals of forms, ideals of relationships and ideals of spirit that lead and push us on. What would we as a humanity be without them?? What would this world be without great dreamers, visionaries and writers...??

Our survival and evolution may not be possible without this.

Would we be doomed to fatalism, nihilism or tunnel vision without these essential archetypes...

I think you touched on something important here...important to us all...


Regards Mikal

[MJA]

Hi Steve...when we talk about the concept of "Utopia" are we really referring to essential archetypes of Ideals which simply reflect our highest vision of possibilities for us and for the world.

Arn't there ideals of justice, ideals of forms, ideals of relationships and ideals of spirit that lead and push us on. What would we as a humanity be without them?? What would this world be without great dreamers, visionaries and writers...??

Our survival and evolution may not be possible without this.

Would we be doomed to fatalism, nihilism or tunnel vision without these essential archetypes...

I think you touched on something important here...important to us all...


Regards Mikal

I have a dream, it is the realization that not only all men but more truly all things are equal, and the universe is set free.

=
MJA

[SteveA]

I have a dream, it is the realization that not only all men but more truly all things are equal, and the universe is set free.

=
MJA

It could also be that everything has already been predetermined to do precisely what it's wanted to the entire time and there never was any non-freedom.

Consider this question - if you could be something other than what you are, what would it? And would you then not be that "instead" and still have been nothing other than yourself the entire time? Also consider that if you didn't know specific what that "other" thing was that you wanted to be, then how could you know you wanted to be it? Becoming an unknown doesn't appear to be something particularly desirable.

So anyway, that's something to consider - it may be that the challenge is in learning why things are already free ... given a choice would you have picked to already know it? If not, then again once that simply reinforces the fact and apparently time has at least some desirable properties.

[SteveA]

I like dis-equilibrium__It allows life and fun...rrr

I think I like riding the edge a bit too and push the envelope a bit, but it's also nice to have a solid "home base" to come back to.

Probably the most disorienting thing for me was realizing that what I thought was "home base" wasn't actually attached to anything secure at all, but then again it's worked perfectly fine all this time and so I'll just define it to be solid - everything else can move relative to it (So hey, in some ways it's even better than before - it's both a solid particle and it can be a dynamically moving wavefront too because it never was chained to anything, not a bad deal at all ... I just want to get a screen dump and put a hardcopy in the vault in case it crashes and I need a reboot )

[SteveA]

MJA, what about the fact that equal always equals__Not equal...

Iff the Universe were truly equal__We wouldn't be here...rrr

I think time is similar to this - something old and something new, or you have an element that already exists or is known combine with something that is new or unknown and again you have something like a wave/particle duality of a single thing, always equal to itself that still changes and becomes different.

As a quick analogy, we could perform some recursive computation of pi and continually refine an approximation to it. It initially begins with large changes but then continually converges toward an ideal value - from an infinitely large perspective it never moved. From a finite perspective it was a convergence, but from an increasingly precise infinitesimal scale it's constantly moving.

I think this is a way to approach an optimal state while avoiding contrasts/dualities in time - basically you slow the learning and converge toward a preferred state and then begin to bias things relative to that constant reference. From a "local"/infinitesimal scale things are still changing and you have the ups and downs, but for a wider/longer term perspective things are going just fine (And then the game is no longer "zero sum" ). Of course this takes a perspective that can't be physically shown to exist though and so you have various elements of intuition, instinct, faith, belief etc. that construct a perspective beyond the present and these need to be aligned with emotions as well as sustainability and growth in time etc. When you have those all aligned, then you have your heading set. Notice that this ideal state has many commonalities no matter where someone began in life and that's why there are so many agreements on the general character of ideal human societies. A lot of people have done a lot of work over time trying to refine those ideals and they typically come to similar conclusions (though often with a lot of specific cultural details that aren't really that important but might serve some purpose in a community or provide an intermediate direction for the short sighted).

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Earth's Magnetosphere:rrr
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Magnetosphere_rendition.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Structure_of_the_magnetosphere_mod.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere
Ranges of Plasmas:rrr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plasma_scaling.svg
Star Nurseries:rrr
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Eagle_nebula_pillars.jpg
One of our possible futures:rrr
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0804/arp272_hst_full.jpg

[Mikal]

Pretty remarkable Lloyd...with that first link how do you see that image that is yellow and blue?? Am I hallucinating or does it resemble an Angel???..lol...

Regards Mikal

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Yeah, I hadn't noticed til you pointed it out, and I had to laugh... I guess it really does take an angel to protect lil' ol' earth from all that cosmic blast from the sun, and other em-rads...rrr

Pretty remarkable Lloyd...with that first link how do you see that image that is yellow and blue?? Am I hallucinating or does it resemble an Angel???..lol...

Regards Mikal

[labelwench]

I like dis-equilibrium__It allows life and fun...rrr

The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in a closed system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in a closed system is that it can change form, for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy.

Would this not be an example of equilibrium, in that the amount of energy remains constant, yet it is a dynamic balance, because it retains such equilibrium by means of change?

Or perhaps, "the more things change, the more they remain the same."

Regards,

Labelwench