East Meets West Logic...

[labelwench]

Any of you lads know anything about the properties of milk? Real milk, as it comes from a grass fed, hormone free cow?

The cream will always rise to the top.

Or at least that was nature's intention before cow's were force fed things that would never, otherwise have been ingested.

Such thoughts would tie into the thread I started some time back, titled "Evolution since the intervention of Mankind."

Where once, it would have been predominantly nature and the environment influencing evolution, the abilities we have developed in affecting our immediate and greater surroundings, would, I suggest, be escalating our rate of evolution, and likewise that of other species.

There are plants and animals on the planet today, that nature would not have contrived to create, they being separated by thousands of miles or years even. (By means of frozen semen, some cattle and horses are being artificially inseminated, although the donor has since gone on to 'green pastures'.)

And when did a fish ever mate with a tomato? Not in the traditional sense, of course, but by having some of it's genes spliced in to lengthen the shelf life of the resulting fruit.

Genetically Modified. There we go with that tendency to take things apart and put them back together in a new order, before we even begin to understand the purpose of the original design.

Meanwhile,we are also concerned about the social stresses on our global population, brought about, in part, by the inequitable division of planetary resources and the increasing instability of the currently flawed system of exchange.

As noted in a previous post, I have barely seen any 'money' in years, yet by means of my exchange of participation in the system by offering hours of service to maintaining the flow of what passes for human nutrition, I am thereby granted the means to access the other resources that make my life tenable.

Why does this system not work for everyone?

Others have spoken to some of the broader trade and currency issues. I would mention a more personal aspect.

Our Canadian government has thoughtfully provided many safety nets and incentives at all levels of society. There are still cracks through which many fall, sadly true, yet the biggest problem I note in a small population with excellent access to resources, is a lack of incentive among many of the young through middle aged population.

Part of the reason for this lack of incentive, I speculate, is the easy availability, in this country, of most basics required for survival. The path of least resistance is usually taken by all elements and species, that I have observed.

The other reason, I suggest, is that we live in an age of information overload.

The world changes dramatically, day to day, and even with our wonderful technology, no person can stay abreast of all the latest wonders, as more people are contributing to the process daily.

We can't even comprehend fully, how we have arrived at ths point, let alone determine what is in our best personal interests as a direction to procede in.

What should one choose as a means to a secure future for themselves today?

What are those of you with children suggesting to them, as a means to ensure their hope of viability, engagement and actualization?

Having elected to not have children, this choice now allows me to contribute in my own small way.

I shall happily be working for weekends and holidays, that persons with family may enjoy that time together as they live and work together to find common solutions to the challenges of each day.

And yet, even now, I must play devil's advocate.

THE PAY RATE FOR HOLIDAYS AND OVERTIME IS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN REGULAR SHIFTS, yet most people want their weekends and holdays off, and higher wages and more paid time off, with less work demanded of them.

The situation is not evenly applied around the globe, I am well aware, but if anyone whines at me about the lack of employment opportunity in the Yukon, so help me, I'm liable to smack them with a glove and say....

"Get a haircut, and get a real job!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOCDoKsXjP0

Later....

[labelwench]

Good morning all,

Driving home this morning, CBC Radio was doing an interview with Dame Vera Lynn, whose recent release of her previous work has topped the charts in the U.K.

yahoo news story at this link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090914/...RpZAMEbANXUzE-

One of the songs I recall my Mother singing, was White Cliffs of Dover, so I looked on-line and found this version with a Spitfire Aircraft Show.

It's rather a paradox, listening to the lovely song, interspersed with the growling engines of those aerial killing machines of their time.

Almost as much a paradox as making war as a means to make peace.

Decades have passed, and yet what really has changed beyond the fact that we have better technology, fancier toys and a lot more people on the planet, still wanting pretty much the same things from life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUx3M...eature=related

The same questions remain unanswered for most.

We have a larger database, and considerably more detail to work with, yet are we really any closer to solving our questions of origin and purpose?

Plenty of global housekeeping details to keep all of us occupied while we take a trip down memory lane....

Regards,

Labelwench

[Lloyd Gillespie]

...listening to the lovely song, interspersed with the growling engines of those aerial killing machines of their time.

The same questions remain unanswered for most.

We have a larger database, and considerably more detail to work with, yet are we really any closer to solving our questions of origin and purpose?Labelwench

Hi Lorrina, do you know the story of the engineer who gave his life designing the Spitfire, allowing England to help win the war? He worked almost round the clock for some four years straight, and died at age 47_worked himself to death. It's quite a sad movie, as I did see it some years back...

You know it's really funny to me, as I just asked my wife this question last night; "questions of origin and purpose?", as it's never been a concern of mine. My wife told my I was strange for it not being, but it truly never has been, yet I guess just about everyone else thinks it a very important concern. The only reason I probe the question of origin is that maybe a big idea in physics could give me the platform I am seeking for my economics ideas, but I really have no personal interest in my origin or purpose in life. Maybe it's something my family instilled in me so young I don't remember, but my only purpose has been to live and be ambitious enough to possibly solve a few of the world's problems for my children, but that was an early desire of mine, and I have no idea where it appeared from. Later my drive came from racing cars, and never having enough money for proper repairs, so I decided to write my first book, back in 1969, and never finished it until 1992, then only crudely, as to my heavy work and family schedules.

Anyway, that drive to do something for humanity is deeply ingrained in my being, and all I can figure is my life's experiences just slowly built it__It's nothing I purposely decided to do. And I know from being young and irresponsible as most any non-mature young individual, I had little desire to solve the world's problems, but as I got older, the challenge just over-came me, and now that's all my life is about. Whether I succeed or not is not even a concern of mine, as a professor I worked with back in the `80's asked me the very question; 'What if your system never gets accepted?' I told him then, it was no concern of mine, as I absolutely knew it would be accepted some day, as it was that same universal system that's been offered by many since Plato__The world has to awake some day_to its own truth...rrr

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Emotions, Desires and Ambitions__The Human Condition…

Imo, emotions, desires and ambitions is enough to generally explain the human condition, and its being limited by law and money__which in turn can be developed into a theory to explain the present global capitalist system, and how it can evolve to a better system of engineered law and money_to truly benefit the human condition…

First, just look at your own condition, and compare it to someone your age with a $$$1 billion dollar trust fund. Skip the part about you wouldn’t want the trust fund, and just purely theorize the conditions of liberty and freedoms afforded to the person with the fund much, much larger than yours, and don’t put the moral implications in, just pure theory, first_morals come later. By doing this little experiment, one is quickly confronted with the real limiting factors of one’s own life_by the real laws and money factors involved.

Let me further take this into the abstract theorizing. Iff humans are restrained to action, within the bounds of their own money capacity, and the state is respected to enforce its laws against you breaking them, then we can inverse this process to show that money and law truly do control and limit everyone’s emotions, desires and ambitions. Now, this truly reduces our freedoms more than most are willing to admit, but let’s take the experiment a bit further, by imagining all us humans as mechanical robots__with emotions, desires and ambitions replaced by scientific energy sources of actions. What would be the total energy sources needed to emulate total, and I mean total_personal to scientific and economic, etc._human actions?

These are the questions I asked myself back in the `70’s and `80’s to allow myself to factorially design new governing systems, at least abstractly theorizingly-wise, with both infinite imagination and finite logic__You’d be surprised at the power of such use of the mind__Just try it… Now, take the entire robot model above and emplace it in place of the 6 billion + humans on Earth, and replace the money system with batteries, and the law system with electricity systems to recharge the batteries. Theorize the entire system’s potential to design and operate the real world us humans inhabit, now. By totally thinking this model through, one quickly can realize it’s truly a scientific problem we are up against, and not a strictly speaking human condition, as limited to our emotions, desires and ambitions__But a problem limited to our faulty intellectual assessments of these lesser ideas and problems.

Next, use the analogous model above, yet turn it back and forth between robot and human realities, as you add the necessary changes to the human world, to have it function as a robotic world catering to the human condition and nature’s improvements of the global commons. Let me give a hint of how to do this; Just theorize yourself with $$$100 trillion dollars, yes that’s Trillions I’m speaking of__and self-build a perfect world of law and money function of incentives_protecting against over-debts, inflation and poverty_not just a system that functions for a short time_but for all time_and this is possible__Think... The second clue would be to start with an easy model of absolute price freeze laws world wide, though this is only a temporary theoretic state of mind, to see the greater picture of possible re-engineering of money systems. Next, figure how to add in permanent incentive action laws, and fair wage laws to all, yet connected to the existing over-debted system’s functions_not to crash the existing system.

By exercising the mind in such a way as above, one will quickly realize the new re-engineering powers that must be added to governments’ options, of actions over laws and money, to make such a system function. Remember, this must be a self-liquidating national debt structure system, which when thoroughly viewed, one would realize is a tax-liquidating system also. The final clue to work with is to realize the present 80% competition of free enterprise must be put in competition with a 1/5 government price controlled enterprise system, permanently instituted as a government P.X military style fixed pricing and distribution system, to compete loosely against the 4/5ths totally free system__thus having over time the power to curb all price increases and that old Fear-demon of inflation and hyper-debts__Thus allowing Keynes' Bancor' Triple Entry Banking system, and Fair Wage Banking system, to function semi-philanthropically...

Let me know if that helps or hurts your theorizing abilities…rrr

[SteveA]

I can relate quite a bit with your comments, Lloyd. It's hard to describe everything but basically I feel like I've worked hard for lots of reasons that at many times felt like they weren't my own and in many ways held back or passed up good things, but deep down I think there were always reasons for this.

And recently it felt like all of these things began to align - instead of focusing as much on things going on in the world around I started using some of the same skills picked up along the way to look at my own values and desires and apply those to myself and find ways to fit a picture of everything together and not leave myself out of it either and I was happy to find that I can add a few nice flourishes to the picture also.

It feels like I went through life and at the age of 41 finally graduated from preschool with a(n introductory) owner's manual to life and I actually earned it too! Yeah! (Free hand outs wouldn't have worked anyway and I didn't fall for the fake offers either and that's just beautiful to me ).

Now there's more than a lifetime of things to do and I'm still trying to work out the best long term strategy - the first step seems obvious, we need a freer and happier humanity and in many ways the rest of the long term "strategy" is just more of the same! (Yes, and even economic issues can be resolved simply from having a wider range of options and examples to learn from - disagreements are naturally resolved via. evolution and the best strategies are those that recognize nature is still running the show)

[r.p.bibra]

Respected Sir (LG),It helps a lot_worth trying.If only 'they' (2%) listen! Wishing all the luck.love&regards.ls

[SteveA]

Now, take the entire robot model above and emplace it in place of the 6 billion + humans on Earth, and replace the money system with batteries, and the law system with electricity systems to recharge the batteries.

I think it works more like this - people inherently possess and produce value themselves, though in diverse ways.

Individuals need a variety of resources and the value of those resources is self determined.

Some actions impose costs or produce benefits to others that are not always reflected in individual transactions.

People tend to set up roadblocks against such harmful actions and governments represent more of a coordinated system of building roadblocks.

Money controls some of the flow of these resources (there are also interactions that aren't monetary).

The ideal is simple - you just allow people the maximum ability to reorganize between themselves to require the fewest roadblocks and establish the most efficient transactions between themselves (and that's not solely monetary).

The problem is that people don't see the larger picture of this and so we have more "traffic congestion" than is needed.

A large problem is that we have a lot more "roadblocks" than are really necessary (IMO) and they aren't organized very efficiently.

One of the best ways of resolving things better in a non-imposing manner is simply to have tools that help people see the a larger picture and coordinate better between themselves. This requires no specific laws to accomplish and it only provides greater options and visibility for various endeavors - with some better coordination there's little reason for the roadblocks or specific monetary policies because people can discover they naturally do better working with other people in voluntary ways simply because everyone is getting the best deal they can and the system moves via. attraction instead of repulsion.

Of course there are many details and specifics involved in any particular example of such forms of institutions, but those are obviously determined by the parties involved and what they perceive to be in their best interest. (Yes, I have tons of recommendations and suggestions, but I think in the long run it's better if people just learn from their own attempts and see what works and what doesn't. I admit that it seems like a lot of painful learning is in store, but as soon as people realize there's little to fight over and the only real important issues are just the one on one interactions with people already in their life, then the problem of too many cooks trying to fix the world can be resolved - noone can fix anything beyond their own immediate environment and that's the only important part of it anyway)

[Lloyd Gillespie]

The problem is that people don't see the larger picture of this and so we have more "traffic congestion" than is needed.

A large problem is that we have a lot more "roadblocks" than are really necessary (IMO) and they aren't organized very efficiently.[/size][/font]

"The problem is that people don't see the larger picture of this and so we have more "traffic congestion" than is needed." My very point Steve. Seeing the larger picture removes the traffic congestion_But then one must know what to act on to resolve the congestion, and our simplest action, that's capable of real change for basic humanity, is simple law changes__That will always be the truth__It has always been the truth__It is the truth...

"A large problem is that we have a lot more "roadblocks" than are really necessary (IMO) and they aren't organized very efficiently." Ditto, as per above...rrr

[labelwench]

Imo, emotions, desires and ambitions is enough to generally explain the human condition, and its being limited by law and money__which in turn can be developed into a theory to explain the present global capitalist system, and how it can evolve to a better system of engineered law and money_to truly benefit the human condition…
Originally posted by Lloyd Gillespie

We need to give at least some thought to our goals when selecting a course in life, and I would suggest that many, if not most people, do not. This just a personal observation of several hundred persons, which is a dreadfully small sampling to base such comment on, I concede.

One of the best ways of resolving things better in a non-imposing manner is simply to have tools that help people see the a larger picture and coordinate better between themselves. This requires no specific laws to accomplish and it only provides greater options and visibility for various endeavors - with some better coordination there's little reason for the roadblocks or specific monetary policies because people can discover they naturally do better working with other people in voluntary ways simply because everyone is getting the best deal they can and the system moves via. attraction instead of repulsion.
Originally posted by Steve A

If I may use myself as an example, my most recent desire was to get more personal satisfaction from my work.

To that effect, I tendered my resignation a week ago at the venue where I work one night weekly, and picked up the same shift at my other employment option, with the goal of maximizing my energy and efficiency.

Tonight, at the venue where I had given notice, I was made an offer that had great appeal. Instead of working 7 1/2 hrs/week as a price check analyst, I was offered a job of 4 hours/month (more if I want, lol) as a label auditor, on an open schedule, my hours to choose, including stats, and retention of an employee discount. .

A corporate entity, at the local level, creating a position, with the goal of attracting and retaining my services.

Precedent setting at this venue. Shows potential for change.

Although by accepting, I will actually be adding 4 more hours of work to my load, I am considering it, as I have total latitude on hours and prioritizing the work. This strikes me precisely as a personal example of how the workplace can become more user friendly, even within the existing framework.

Individuals need a variety of resources and the value of those resources is self determined.
Originally posted by SteveA

By choosing night shift and a task that others find tedious, I have made myself into a resource that is now determining it's own value in the workplace of today.

Perhaps it is time that we all became entrepreneurs of the self. After a modicum of serious 'book learning' (computers nowadays) I would suggest that the best way to learn any skill or career is to get on with it. There are far more paths to follow than the current model suggests, and no need to stick with only one, if interests change, as they usually do in life.

The best job skills to have in future may well be good health, desire to learn and a cheerful willingness to adapt.

Rather expecting there will be sufficient interests, and learning while earning opportunities for all.

Later....
Labelwench

[SteveA]

We need to give at least some thought to our goals when selecting a course in life, and I would suggest that many, if not most people, do not. This just a personal observation of several hundred persons, which is a dreadfully small sampling to base such comment on, I concede.

If I may use myself as an example, my most recent desire was to get more personal satisfaction from my work.

To that effect, I tendered my resignation a week ago at the venue where I work one night weekly, and picked up the same shift at my other employment option, with the goal of maximizing my energy and efficiency.

Tonight, at the venue where I had given notice, I was made an offer that had great appeal. Instead of working 7 1/2 hrs/week as a price check analyst, I was offered a job of 4 hours/month (more if I want, lol) as a label auditor, on an open schedule, my hours to choose, including stats, and retention of an employee discount. .

A corporate entity, at the local level, creating a position, with the goal of attracting and retaining my services.

Precedent setting at this venue. Shows potential for change.

Although by accepting, I will actually be adding 4 more hours of work to my load, I am considering it, as I have total latitude on hours and prioritizing the work. This strikes me precisely as a personal example of how the workplace can become more user friendly, even within the existing framework.

Excellent work I've had some similar experiences as well and have found that if you are able to find a way to be valuable to someone else, the smart ones will usually work with you and can be quite flexible. (As an employee, in some senses you're also an employer - you hire your boss . No disrespect, but any business that wants to stick around and grow needs to develop enough smarts to keep the employees happy and employees shouldn't ask for little things they don't want but instead just focus on the simplest things for an employer that are most valuable for the employee ... for example, giving you different duties or job hours costs an employer almost nothing, yet it can improve things quite a bit for an employee.)

There was one company I worked for that didn't realize how much I did until I finally quit and then about 4 months later they called me back and offered a 50% raise. I worked there for a little over a year more and then left again (no complaint this time. I just needed a break) and they did the same thing about 6 months later giving me another 50% raise. Eventually I just worked part time contracting and we were both happy - they didn't pay me when they had no work and I enjoyed working when they had things that they really needed and then messing around on my own things at home in between. (I still get called back on occasion)

The trick is of course to work with an employer and find the best arrangement and make sure you're offering something that's not just a carbon copy replacement of something they can get anywhere (that's one of the drawbacks to more institutional forms of education).

By choosing night shift and a task that others find tedious, I have made myself into a resource that is now determining it's own value in the workplace of today.

Yes, that's another way things can work out well. I tend to be an afternoon and evening guy myself and almost invariably come in later and later wherever I work. The option for an employer is to either can me for not having normal hours or give me a key to the place and let me lock up when I leave LOL! (And yes, that's usually how it works out)

Perhaps it is time that we all became entrepreneurs of the self. After a modicum of serious 'book learning' (computers nowadays) I would suggest that the best way to learn any skill or career is to get on with it. There are far more paths to follow than the current model suggests, and no need to stick with only one, if interests change, as they usually do in life.

Great suggestion - it might be a good idea to expand some horizons and even do something that might earn less now but give you skills and experience for the future.

Also, if people can save some of what they earn (at least a few months of living expenses minimum I recommend), then you also have a bit more flexibility in bargaining (you're not going to be on the street right away if something falls through).

The best job skills to have in future may well be good health, desire to learn and a cheerful willingness to adapt.

I'm game. Sign me up! Yes and trustworthiness is a big one too (that can be one of the largest problems when working a new job - it's hard to know who's reliable and means well (even if some mistakes are made on occasion), versus those who just don't seem to care and just want to take advantage of any benefit of a doubt they're extended - maybe we need a "social credit" card instead of monetary credit cards? )

Rather expecting there will be sufficient interests, and learning while earning opportunities for all.

Later....
Labelwench

Excellent comments, thanks. Yes, there are a lot of experiences out there and it's a shame that much of the time is just spent trying to follow the maze of the rat race and not seeing any of the scenary along the way.

(I admit I've been lucky in some ways, but I think with a little extra attention and foresight most people can make a little of their own 'luck' too , but of course someone has to realize the options are there and have the desire to pursue them and be willing to live a little bit on-the-edge - no, nothing spectacular right away, but just like muscles can need a little exercise, taking a bit more of a drivers seat view of life can require some experience as well before you can really do some racing! )

As always ...
Steve