East Meets West Logic...

[SteveA]

(... continued from above)

Now here's a neat little operation I happened to see (it was supposedly an idea from a kid in India who was helping his father compute how many tiles they'd need for some designs ... just an interesting anecdote).

If we instead began with a single origin and a length in one direction (a line segment) we can rotate this segment and construct a triangular area between these two segments and if we use discrete units for space we have a stairstep structure like this for various lengths (shown from 0 to 3 below - the "distance" between endpoints is one less than the width of a side because overlapping points are superimposed upon each other and occupy the same space)

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The area of this growth is (n^2-n)/2

Now multiplication is 2 dimensional and it's equivalent to a generating a new quantity as a function of two existing values.

If we instead have a function of a single input that computes this discrete triangular area, we can compute the difference between two of these values (basically we're subtracting one triangular area from another and constructing a trapezoidal area).

It ends up that in this case the equivalent of the "prime" numbers are powers of 2 as well as the number 3. (Rather interesting to me)

Well if were able to construct the triangle, then we already have 3 of something and if we took a single line and folded it back on itself, we already have the capability of constructing quantities as powers of two. It would appear this operation is extremely non-redundant and efficient at generating trazoidal areas to generate other quantities.

Consider also that this operation could be extended in a more abstract sense along the progression point, line, triangle, tetrahedron, ... and other "hyper"-triangular forms.

These spaces are all defined by attributes or properties that are the endpoints of them and positions reachable are contained "within" that space. The endpoints are the equivalent of prime structures that each provide a property similar to orthogonality in a Euclidean sense and the growth of diversity in these spaces is closely related to statical forms and various properties of Pascal's Triangle or Gaussian distributions.

Another way of looking at this would be to consider the evolution of local or linear interactions over time within a single dimension.

Here's an example of a linear computational structure - Wolfram's Rule 110. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110 (Here's another interesting breakdown of some of its local properties in more geometric terms - http://www30.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=rule+110)

There's even a better one (though more chaotic and complex because it is better at information conservation) Rule 30 - http://www30.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=rule+30

Now something to consider is how the influences of information propagate along such a 1-D structure over time (this is not really the same as the 1-D "execution trace" of a complete string - the "real" string has no memory elements within it but instead would be "bent" into a form in an exponentially larger space to represent the "computational trajectory", for Rule 30 it would be like a hypercube and the current state of all the bits stored in the space represent the positions of each binary dimension - again though, I don't think we're really working with such a binary space but instead a more "triangular" form similar to the above with endpoints that represent prime properties, but I'm just trying to show a manner to "see" time in a 1-D computation space)

Since element communicate locally, their influences "diffuse" over space and any digit at one point in time has a possible influence up to n units away over a distance of n units of time (it's interesting to consider this similar to a constant velocity speed of "possibilities" over time ).

So in a forward direction in time we have a spreading triangular record (let's call this downward in a flat 2-D representation or forward in time) of influences from an initial point.

Now if we look at any particular state "Now" and we try to determine the cause, it's like looking in the other direction backwards or upwards and seeing a spreading space of possible causes for the current state.

We have two triangles intersecting at a single point Now and if we had a finite space (the only logical form we can work with) we could roll these triangles into cones and see them similar to light cones in Relativity.

But let's extend this even further! What if we move out into a 3rd dimension in this representation and extend these from being triangles to tetrahedrons and in a similar sense this is much like look at all the space within the past and future light cones and not just the surface (so we're including matter and warped spaces).

Now we're not only seeing past and future but in effect all possible pasts and futures capable of reaching the current Now. (I know this stuff is abstract)

Let's say for a second that memory happens to be slightly unreliable (I think conscious memory is a derivative form of memory and not a more fundamental form though we can't really prove that to be true but it appears qualitatively obvious ... does anyone remember exactly what happened all of yesterday? Something does, but it's not anyone of us and also as an example, deja vous is perceiving a familiarity that "feels" like a memory and in this sense remembering in a conscious manner is much like a qualitative experience of a smell of something Now or seeing a color etc. It's generally associated with things that we'd consider to be a past, but it's not 100% representative of it and is flexible to some extent)

So here's an interesting thought that by selectively biasing memories of the past, the possible futures that correlate with them are also biased

Now here's a bit deeper thought to consider as well - have natural laws ever been experienced as non-deterministic? We have unpredicted events occur, but in hindsight was there ever a discontinuity that can be recalled?

If not, then we can say that the laws of nature are no more infallible than our memory, which is potentially quite fallible LOL! So yes, we can observe perfectly rigid and deterministic laws of nature relative to our experiences and memory etc., but those conscious experiences and memory etc. are actually quite flexible and nature happens to conform to them quite well. Now is that a rather amazing insight or what? So we could ask "Where's the programmer", but that would be crazy to try to arbitrarily assign where such a thing is - the laws of nature don't allow such arbitrary assignments to be made! - where do you remember the programmer being?!! Obviously the programmer is still there! ... nature doesn't let things randomly move around and aint she beautiful!! (Teach her well, cause she's your companion for a long time and learn from her too because she's got lots of pretty surprises)

Dang, I forgot whether or not I won the lottery tomorrow ... oh but that would be such a hassle cashing the check etc. Why bother with that when I remember that this morning is already the beginning of a great day and I should be checking it out!

I love all you guys Thank you much! I've got to admit I've been somewhat lucky in life and yes, the odds were probably a bit biased.

See if you can remember being a bit lucky in life too ...

Enjoy it - I think I'm feeling better than I ever felt in my entire life. It's like waking up and realizing you've been in heaven all along.

(P.S. See if you can remember that beautiful future that has been waiting. There are a ton of details that need to be added and we have an infinite number of primes to work with - the bag is never empty unless you forget it. The way I remember it was it was all of us having a party and that has always been the most beautiful thing ever!)

Steve

[SB_UK]

If someone were to start 'broadcasting' a very interesting and powerful piece of technical information, what would, or could be done?
Do the global power brokers have the means to shut down the web?

This will happen and soon enough -
the logical conclusion of ToE which'll explain away *most* notably

the nature of reality (unravelling the metaphors of all schools of religion)
and
the basis to nuclear fusion (free energy).

The reason why the Internet won't be shut down -
- is that people'll simply burn a CD or print out and photocopy the information

- talk (bleughhh!) even!
(if we really must)

- an explanation of God and a mechanism for generating free energy
- actually *both* sharing the same underlying simple mechanism
are
sufficiently simple to convey
- sufficiently simple that shutting down the Internet 'll have no particular impact on the passage of this information.

~*~

Any individual who chooses to make a full public disclosure of such an important innovation will all at once eliminate intellectual property (the patent process).

Information just wants to be free.

Rejecting ownership of the most significant innovation imaginable will shame people away from future patent applications -
- will result in people releasing their current patents.

With an end to the patent process -
will come an end to the contract
- will come an end to 'law'
as we know it.

~*~

The standard banker and politician aren't our problem -
our problems reside squarely with the nature of the law and the lawyer
- the lawyer who (and as mentioned above) -
- corrupts under the burden of power which responsibility brings.

[SteveA]

Fly as a metaphor for freedom.
Freedom (from repression).
Repression - societally enforced - though not through design - instead solely historical {sequence,process}.

Freedom though as a 'state' of mind which when we all get a teensy bit crazy - will result in the more formally identified {tools,agents,Institutions} of repression
melting
away.

People no longer wanting to be a part of some agency which exerts net harm -
- no longer wanting to be a part
--following--
acquisition of an understanding of how their organization is perceived -
- of how their organization fits into the global scheme of interaction involving all 'things'

- the individuals within such organizations no longer seeking to be a part of a group which exerts net harm

- the individuals within organizations exerting net harm de-selecting themselves from such roles.

~*~

What's required for 'all of this' to happen
- simplification of the global system such that we may all gain an understanding of how things work.

Human systems are only impenetrable because there has been a vested interest to develop 'things' in this way.

It's very easy to confuse people -
- much more difficult to simplify (importantly though without loss of information).

Things will be as we want them. Do we want a humanity of dominated robots or something freer, more expressive and diverse? We ultimately can't fight human nature and I think it's much better than often portrayed. We can just turn off the news with all its unrealistic biased perspectives and look outside ... the "social weather prediction" on most small scale interactions is sunny with only a small chance of showers.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Just a thought, but you don't really think we are ever going to discover how it all works do you, any of you?

We absolutely must discover how it all works Lorrina__The dangers of human extinction have reached that critical state/stage where we must__or die__Global formal insanity and resource shortages do not mix__It's like a drunk and a loaded gun...

That would surely be our undoing.

Why do you say that Lorrina...?

While we may be permitted the keys to our own destruction, I rather suspect that we shall never be granted the power to effect the 'big picture' in any truly signficant way.

Which big picture are you asking about__Global or Universal...? If global, we will definitely affect the 'big picture' in the future__We must...

Maybe we could have done better with that species know as 'mankind'. Never figured it to become so invasive to other species, and even destructive to itself. Where did that get programmed in? Flawed from the start or was it a mutation?

It was programmed in from the beginning. All nations evolved asymmetrically/unbalanced as to their natural resource uses, thus creating the naturally evolved imbalances of all nations' systems. This is what we must rebalance__Nature's evolution timing system. The Chinese sit on the floors, because they used up all their wood years ago, so they dig coal out of the ground, have hearths in the floors of their homes(most efficient use), thus must sit close to the heat, as their houses are so thinly insulated__the wood problem again. Just one example of nations' resource use timings of...

There's many, many more around the world. Just look at us with black-gold...rrr

[labelwench]

Hello Steve,

One of the exercises I remember from high school, was drawing three dimensional figures of graph paper.

Then we were tasked with slicing different pieces off and re-drawing both the piece and the original with the piece removed. I quite enjoyed this exercise and managed good marks.

Now of course, computers do amazing things with graphics. This allows us to appreciate them visually, but does not task the individual with (beyond those who design the programs) doing their own creative thinking and expression.

For those who embrace the new technology, there are many ways to use it creatively. I note, that there are many people, who have not sought to embrace the computer age.

My thoughts are, that these may be people who were reading challenged and so lack the skills to move forward with today's technology.

Steve, Lloyd, SB__UK and all.

You folks are very talented 'thinkers'.

It is my concern that the majority of persons that I know, would not have a clue about most of these conversations and concepts, and heaven knows, I'm treading water a good part of the time and appreciate your forebearance.

I'm starting to feel like a 'scout', caught between the present reality of my existing world and the endless potentials being expressed by all present, and wondering if there is anything that I can report back to those who simply know me as myself.

Interesting contemplations......

For the present, I have no futher comment.

That does raise the question though, of how long is 'the present'?

Later......

Perhaps....

Might decide to ride a horse instead!

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Quantum Strange Attractor(Hydrodynamics of waves...)(amazing animation, click and drag mouse to change angles...)

Just wondering, from a technical standpoint, if they have the access, and would they use it? Seems that persons such as yourself might have a better understanding of such capability. Lorrina

The CIA and FBI are presently running Carnivore on the web, right now, and have been since some time in the mid-`90's. That's their information spy network, with the capacity of looking at every dangerous idea anyone, they choose to look at, anywhere in the world may type. The NSA has thousands trying to sort the wheat of danger from the chaff__24-7, after computers do the first sorts. No Lorrina, they've the technical power to do what they wish. I myself, along with others, have been shut out of China back in 2003, for publishing on a really professional e-mag there_then. None of us invited to publish, have any idea where or what happened to the publisher__He and the e-mag just disappeared over-night. China controls all access to the www_Now. The US or any nation has that ability, any time they wish...rrr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nddVC8iTbeM&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEX8mv864-0&feature=related

[SteveA]

Hello Steve,

One of the exercises I remember from high school, was drawing three dimensional figures of graph paper.

Then we were tasked with slicing different pieces off and re-drawing both the piece and the original with the piece removed. I quite enjoyed this exercise and managed good marks.

Now of course, computers do amazing things with graphics. This allows us to appreciate them visually, but does not task the individual with (beyond those who design the programs) doing their own creative thinking and expression.

Yes, anything that we can control is finite/confined/circular/enclosed etc. nothing controlled grows. It is simply a part of oneself.

But time is not closed and it's a resource we direct to construct those finite forms. We interact via. finite properties, but are not ourselves constrained in a finite sense.

Yes, on one scale, the universe is just a single entity, but that entity can also be arranged as multiple entities which are effectively independent as well. A single object can be interleaved into the equivalent of multiple independent objects (between themselves), but still they're all connected together on a higher (or lower, depending on which way you're viewing it) level.

For those who embrace the new technology, there are many ways to use it creatively. I note, that there are many people, who have not sought to embrace the computer age.

I'm similar to an extent. I don't have a cell phone nor cable television ... I'm already "wired in" enough.

Technology should only be enabling and not become a crutch or addiction (and I'm a hypocrit in some respects there, but at least I see some of the hypocracy and I can shift directions ... it's mostly important to at least make informed decisions and do some long term planning on where to go).

My thoughts are, that these may be people who were reading challenged and so lack the skills to move forward with today's technology.

Steve, Lloyd, SB__UK and all.

You folks are very talented 'thinkers'.

Thank you. Yes, it's one of those addictions as well ... a thankfully pleasurable one, but definitely the end goal is not to continually think, or maybe I should say that the ideal is additions to this that balance it more

It is my concern that the majority of persons that I know, would not have a clue about most of these conversations and concepts, and heaven knows, I'm treading water a good part of the time and appreciate your forebearance.

I admit I'm trying to really 'push the envelope' but I'm doing it because I feel pretty confident in my abilities and there are many things that point to valuable insights and understandings in these directions. Basically it's a lot like there was a storyline that life just kept pressing for and wouldn't let me just relax and enjoy the scenary ... well I think it was because deep down I knew there was better scenary ahead and things weren't satisfying enough without 'letting go' some and just giving everything the best shot.

I'm starting to feel like a 'scout', caught between the present reality of my existing world and the endless potentials being expressed by all present, and wondering if there is anything that I can report back to those who simply know me as myself.

I think that the simple version of it is it basically to "reach inside" and see what life should be and then bring that out and recognize that nature isn't just something out there imposing itself upon us but a dynamic exchange - nature learns from us too

Also, it seems important to line up all the desires in life. Find that perfect picture of how things should be and then understand that we've been heading that way.

Yes, we've been scouting and it was along the perimeter of a very nice and expansive space. Pushing the edges a bit to see what gives or not, but the ideal is not to always do this but instead to move back from those convoluted edges as well and know that you've got a massive space of possibilities where the weather is bright and the sun is shining In other words, similar to a child learning to walk, lots of mistakes are made but once you've learned how things are connected and the limits of these possibilities then you can run and dance and have some fun exploring, but in the space of emotions there's really nothing to explore at all - there's only a single point that matters and it's simply to enjoy life. No exploration on the emotions is really needed at all except to reinforce the same thing.

But time doesn't let things stand still, so the trick is to learn how to love life while moving too and the only long term love affair that's ever going to be satisfying is one with infinite growth ... anything else is going to pass away.

Now that growth doesn't need to be fast or slow or anything specific, but it just means that you can never pick only one set of things and expect them to last forever - instead there is truly only one thing you need but you need it in an infinite number of contexts and spaces etc. and I think it's just that enjoyment of everything - actions that are destructive or inhibiting or self limiting etc. will never be able to be enjoyed. So in effect, being unsatisfied results from trying to hang onto something that is limited and can't follow you through life and time etc. Self inhibition is for exploring those boundaries and it provides a return on investment because you can learn to plot some "safe" courses of growth into the future, but the intent of life is not to continually learn, but to enjoy as well and the more aligned your actions are with sustainability the better

The difficulty is in understanding how nature works. The "rules" portray by science are only half the picture. Learning how to tie it all together beautifully is probably something that takes forever, but probably a lot of "old school" views and spiritual views already have much of the other part.

It really is about learning wisdom. Tying everything together and finding that common purpose to all of it so everything can move forward and together and nothing is left behind ... with enough foresight in life, there's really never a need to fight and suffer, but that's partly why continual learning and growth is necessary in order to accomodate everything, but the beauty is that everything accomodates you as well and we all win!

Interesting contemplations......

Yes, definitely. There are always more things to learn, but I feel much less pressure to do so ... it's mostly habits and I've been rather "cerebral" for quite a long time now ... the rest of me wants to have some fun and I see a lot of clear skies ahead and can have some fun sailing a bit.

For the present, I have no futher comment.

That does raise the question though, of how long is 'the present'?

Later......

Perhaps....

Might decide to ride a horse instead!

Excellent question!

Get on your horse and contemplate it

Cya again!!!

[SteveA]

...

Just a thought, but you don't really think we are ever going to discover how it all works do you, any of you?

That would surely be our undoing.

While we may be permitted the keys to our own destruction, I rather suspect that we shall never be granted the power to effect the 'big picture' in any truly signficant way.

...

There was something that already did the entire thing before any of us even had a first thought. Our thoughts depend on it and any logic we construct was derived from it.

Yes, we can do most anything we want to ourselves, but we're never going to catch up to the thing that has always been everywhere all the time.

We might as well go sight see and pick the best spots

[labelwench]

I profess to no religion, and it's painfully obvious that much of science still eludes me, yet having just stumbled on this song, it feels like it fits much of what we are discussing in all of the threads.

I post it here, for you Lloyd, and Steve, SB__UK, and all others whom venture these parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo53G...eature=related

English Translation:
Extend your hand, Lord
Anything is possible with your love
Today I confess to you, my Lord, my God, my Saviour
No longer is there darkness in me, only light
Now extend your hand Jesus
Extend your hand Lord
Anything is possible with your love
Today I confess to you, my Lord, my God, my Saviour
No longer is there darkness in me, only light
Now extend your hand Jesus
Lord listen to my prayer!
Today I give you my heart
Erase my faults, God my Saviour
Today I confess to you, my Lord
Lord listen to my prayer
Today I give you my heart
Erase my faults, God my Saviour
Today I confess to your my Lord
Lord Listen to my prayer!
Today I give you my heart
Erase my faults, God my Saviour
Today I confess to you my Lord
Erase my faults, God my Saviour
Today I confess to you my Lord.

Father, give grace to repent and believe; for men and even Your own redeemed people have no real perception of what the lawbreaker deserves, and what the lawbreaker will inherit. Lord, may people in this gathering tonight flee from the wrath to come. Search hearts, even those who think they are saved, some of these young people - may they make their calling and election sure - some of the older folk ready to pass into eternity, Lord, grant that they are not resting on a life of morality and religiosity, but life that is resting on Christ alone and manifesting the fruit of the Spirit. Oh, hear our prayer, and may none be standing on any other ground than the solid ground of Christ. Amen.

[COLOR="Blue"]Music, a combined language of words, maths, and fields of energy...[LW/COLOR]

[G_burnett]

anna, your no scout .. you are more like a charm in this site with all you post ... sage