East Meets West Logic...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Thanks Mikal, merely covering the possibles...

And, I see no difference between cognition and logical understanding, which I know as direct seeing...

I also use my subjective emotions to bring many situations to life. Imagination is one of the great fun things of living__without creative imagination, it'd be a pretty drab world...

And, all our essence agents grow out of pure emotions...rrr

Subjectivity cannot be proven????

Lloyd I can objectively observe that a table is a top supported by either 3 or 4 legs but I can subjectively stare at that table and put a pure white tablecloth...a candalabra...a vase with one rose and two people sitting there by canlelight dinner...I can dim the lights completely, I can make these two people romantic...I can have them just sharing a meal....

Objectively a table is a table but subjectively I can animate it with life...

Why do you think that you have angered anyone. I can't speak for others but I am just discussing...not reacting....and I am not angered by anyone...

Cognition is a function which comes from emotion...cognition is what is saving us from our present social issues....we are no longer blind and all because of cognition....


Regards Mikal

[SB_UK]

Trying (and failing) to imagine a renewed sense of purpose.

Wondering whether the need for a sense of purpose will somehow dissipate.

In all fairness, we've gone on for this long under a false sense of purpose -
- not as though 'purpose' particularly matters
- not as if 'purpose' (at least in the old sense of the term) is there to be found

- not as though 'purpose' particularly matters as long as we change to no longer need it ~to be~.

~*~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

Disaffected youth emerging like a brood?

Turning to imagination to work out what we'll do when we've redressed the balance in world power and have a lovely shiny happy all of species

... ... ... twiddling their fingers ?

What'll people do when there're no more crazy politico-religious lego-banking dictators to rise up against?

Two words ?

alien invasion

'Take me to your SteveA'

[Lloyd Gillespie]

What'll people do when there're no more crazy politico-religious lego-banking dictators to rise up against...?

Free Global Transportation Systems, Hobbies & Vacations__Man...

Ya want it as simple as possible__Here it is__Law = Control prices, and We can print Real wealth. But, don't tell the Rich Pinheads__As they want their false monopoly on money. This is generally where we're headed, no matter who says otherwise__Thomas More's Utopia__Just add a pinch of scientific reality... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_More

P.s.
It's coming anyway__as the computers/robots are taking all the jobs...

[Mikal]

Thanks Mikal, merely covering the possibles...

And, I see no difference between cognition and logical understanding, which I know as direct seeing...

I also use my subjective emotions to bring many situations to life. Imagination is one of the great fun things of living__without creative imagination, it'd be a pretty drab world...

And, all our essence agents grow out of pure emotions...rrr

Personally Lloyd I see a big difference between cognition and logical understanding. Logic is a function of the intellect and thought whereas cognition involves a self-contained inner emotional life and requires emotional maturity to function.


Regards Mikal

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Personally Lloyd I see a big difference between cognition and logical understanding. Logic is a function of the intellect and thought whereas cognition involves a self-contained inner emotional life and requires emotional maturity to function.

Regards Mikal

Sorry Mikal, but there's no difference necessary to me. All I have do is replace cognition with logic above and it's identical. "Logic involves a self-contained inner emotional life and requires emotional maturity to function"(definition of the 'logica utens'). The trouble arises when one tries to define emotional maturity__It's only definable to the self, whereas logic is definable to the whole human community. Emotional maturity takes agreement among individuals, and I'd never agree to another's idea of emotional maturity, as I see it extremely flawed, and locked in its own tautological necessities of actions(just take the sexual intellect as an example, fully accepted in many communities, yet not in others, yet is the most mature, imo). It's also like my wife long ago stated, "One's morality is developed as we see other's morally see us"(in other words, we often conform to other's moral mores), but no-one needs conform to such actions. So maturity is a self-based definition__always. Logic is universal based in maths, fairnesses and geometries, etc., therefore the more viable and versatile form of cognition, imo. The intellectual debates have always come down to psychological cognition vs. logical cognition__I suspect they will, for some time to come...

You also stated above, "Logic is a function of the intellect", and no not always. As I stated above, there's the 'logica utens' state, which is the natural emotional based logical cognition state, which is not the academic 'logica docens' state of intellect. The Arabic speaking nations long ago made these important logic distinctions__The modern world is often lost to these more sensible realities and meanings, thus creating all these unnecessary problems of false interpretations between psychology and logic__Both systems carry all the same important points, when thoroughly known. Imo, E.Husserl was the best and most thorough on the psychologies, and C.S.Peirce was the best and most thorough on the logics...rrr

[Mikal]

One's morality is developed as we see other's morally see us"(in other words, we often conform to other's moral mores)


Now we could say that this statement is false also because I developed my morality and ethics through facing and passing through an ethical dilemma that surfaced in my own life....I had to consciously struggle with some urges and forces I did not quite understand and that conscious struggle entailed some suffering with myself until I had conquered what I seen as some impulses that may have selfishly hurt others....

If you are pushed and pulled in the moral dictates that push and strain society then you worry about how others may morally see you...but if you consciously struggle to grow ethically and morally then it becomes a matter of knowing how and when to stand upon your own convictions even if they go against the moral grain of the norm....


Regards Mikal

[labelwench]

In fine, Husserl's conception of logic and mathematics differs from that of Frege, who held that arithmetic could be derived from logic. For Husserl this is not the case: mathematics (with the exception of geometry) is the ontological correlate of logic, and while both fields are related, neither one is strictly reducible to the other.

From Wiki

'neither one is strictly reducible to the other'.

I retire contemplating the above.....

Something about it resonates....

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Yes, I see your position Mikal, but mine is one of dealing in all the diverse communities that exist. I never take a moral or ethical position, unless necessary for life and limb. This way of flowing with the community I happen to be in, works best for me. I care not for ethical or moral maturity, as I truly see it as no more than another's religion, or ideological position, and I reject all religions and ideologies. The natural flow is my god, whatever that may be, wherever I am. Of course if that be in a religious community or setting, I just leave, but really try to avoid such restrictive communities of all kinds, even emotionally restrictive communities, except here at ToeQuest, which is imo, extremely emotionally restrictive. That's not emotional maturity__That's emotional repression, and is how I see most people's preferred emotional maturity. It's just far too emotionally restrictive for my liking...rrr

P.s.
Hope my free-thinking doesn't bother you...

One's morality is developed as we see other's morally see us"(in other words, we often conform to other's moral mores)


Now we could say that this statement is false also because I developed my morality and ethics through facing and passing through an ethical dilemma that surfaced in my own life....I had to consciously struggle with some urges and forces I did not quite understand and that conscious struggle entailed some suffering with myself until I had conquered what I seen as some impulses that may have selfishly hurt others....

If you are pushed and pulled in the moral dictates that push and strain society then you worry about how others may morally see you...but if you consciously struggle to grow ethically and morally then it becomes a matter of knowing how and when to stand upon your own convictions even if they go against the moral grain of the norm....


Regards Mikal

[Mikal]

Well Lloyd your discussing here with a free thinker! I own my own mind, absolutely nobody thinks for me and no social institution in our society can have access to influencing it unless I am willing to be influenced. I also am not a part of organized religion and as far as Ideologies go...I study them and chart their influence on our societies...


Regards Mikal

[SteveA]

Ya want it as simple as possible__Here it is__Law = Control prices, and We can print Real wealth.

What we really want is a way to "print" up valuable goods and services etc.

Paper will always be paper. If you want real wealth you don't print up paper, you create the value behind it.

If a law sets a price for some product and you print up more paper but fix the price then you'll find you have paper but nothing to buy with it - a.k.a. massive inflation.