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  1. #851
    Grandmaster SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    really interesting links; thanks.

    ~*~

    In all honesty -
    - attempting to find something worth doing and a method to earn money honestly.

    Can't find anything worth doing to a large extent because the current financial system is itself corrupt.

    The closest I get to finding a task worth doing is in a venture which is borne from the need to mitigate the rampaging effects of money on society; running around after people with cash and no conscience with a dustpan and brush.

    Completely confounded
    - leading me to my only real question (from the last several years or so) ... ... ...

    How does one behave perfectly morally in a world in which money is required - in which any and every dealing which involves money is (in effect) bad?

    It's the sole basis behind the one~wage one~currency idea - freedom from wage~slavery
    our yesteryear.

    The basis behind 'mixing it up until there is no pedigree' leading to homogenization in our superficial aspect (physical) whilst supported by maximal diversity in the genome (of the species) below -

    - mixing it up until wages are normalized into a tight band around the mean (one~wage perhaps)
    - leading to maximal diversity in 'workplace' deliverables alongside a market of the entire global population with approximately (if not exactly) the same buying power.

    Perhaps people (following a guarantee of their physical physiological needs being met) could choose to pool their own money into a venture
    - a shared venture if like-minded individuals so voluntarily (ref. SteveA) wish
    - the difference between this and the current {private corporation / share-holder model}
    being
    the share-holders as the actual voluntary workers contributing to a joint venture
    - profits measured in the success of the product and not in the amount of cash money gained.

    Not for $ profit Only for human satisfaction -
    - when the project becomes too dull for {one to all} of the participants
    - {all to one} can simply choose (ref SteveA) to go their own way
    and
    start again.

    A labour of love.

    To work is a basic human need (the carrot) and not the stick which {money, law, the private corporation and government} conspire to defraud.

    Question?
    Why is work (in the very vast majority of cases) just not fun?

    Answer this question {compulsion,disenfranchised,an unwilling cog}
    - correct those flaws
    and
    we're there.

    A Post-default ourselves end to unthinking illusionary-self mandated Institutional repression.
    [ nothing other than killing money the law the savage within (original sin) matters ]

  2. #852
    Moderator leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
    Zoning To Enhance Nature...

    Imagine a natural community where:

    No vinal/aluminum/faux siding allowed__No asphalt roofing__No faux anything...

    All siding/roofing must be wood, of some design__Unless stone or brick...

    All houses and businesses must be natural stick built, stone or brick__Houses and businesses required to have open porches, for natural socialization of community...

    All business signs must be carved wood__and have hitching posts, and public seating on porches/boardwalks...

    All energy sources must be natural...

    Houses may be all types of wood siding__Clear or painted...

    Houses should be of exquisite design__yet shall not be huge...

    Community should be planned with housing centered around businesses, and farming and natural lands and lake areas, preserved in the outside parimeters...

    Imagine a main central farm for all actively desiring participants...

    Let half the 200 square miles be set aside for farming__food and trees...

    Let this acreage support 100,000 people__Make it possible from scratch...

    Lakes may be used for fish-farming__preferably vegetarian fish, as most renewable__Chinese perfected such systems thousands of years ago...

    Let a campground exist on one of the lakes__yet must be all small natural wood cabins__No trailers anywhere__Too faux...

    Use natural char fertilizers, and crop burnings, as native Indians perfected centuries ago, to enhance new growths__Also natural animal and fish fertilizers, and massive composting, etc...

    Cars allowed in certain areas only__Horses and battery/electric golf carts allowed everywhere...

    Imagine a solar, wind, geo-thermal, etc., green powered community, or any other new clean sources thought up...

    Let the community be in the cold countries, so all aspects of necessity are covered...

    Let all streets be of natural materials__No asphalt, only crushed stone, gravel or cobble stones/bricks, etc...

    Dream up a set/increasing incentive money system, to allot all citizen's and businesse's resources__to supply the best ordered living conditions possible...

    All's possible in this new natural community, as your new money system is a sovereign of the people, as a universal ownership of the money/distribution/trade system__Completely computerize if desired__Not mandatory...

    Biggest hurdle will be figuring out how to inter-face the community's money and trading system with the greater out-side world__preventing inflation of the local money__This is the biggie__Yet solvable__Think__Think__and Think some more__It'll come to ya...

    Continue this imagination, on and on__It's all within your natural creative universal imagination's capacity...
    &**%#@!!! Lost this post the first time around...

    It's obvious you've committed much time, research and thought to your model, Lloyd. This is very similar to the model I've been pushing, except mine is on a more modest scale, say a dozen residences in each community (wheels within wheels).

    I've long been frustrated that we continue to embalm in concrete the most beautiful, productive and diverse environments - and, usually only to create the unfriendly, unsustainable, suburban cookie-cutter model which (where I'm from) is susceptable to periodic flooding (and further environmental degradation).


    I suggest the model should also include:
    • attractive, sustainable houses of a modest scale with provision for overflow guest accommodation in studio style units owned by the whole community
    • a community building to incorporate gathering/meeting/party space; workshop area to facilitate hobbies and skills and their perpetuation in the community; recycling storage for superfluous possessions so that they can be signed out for service within the community, as necessary
    • community vegetable garden and orchard which would include a barter/exchange system (eg if a community member can't contribute to the gardening labour, then in exchange for produce, that member might reciprocate by making jams, breads, etc)
    • a commitment to natural health and healing
    Travel is a large part of our lives these days, and a system of house-swapping could also be encouraged.

    So far, I've been able to interest a couple of groups of friends in this model, one includes a lawyer and a town planner, both of whom will be invaluable in the appeal to local authorities for relaxation of townplanning and/or zoning regulations.

    All indigenous peoples have lost their essential freedoms, it's just that some have only just come to this realization.

    'From little things, big things grow...' It doesn't get any more Australian than this... CLICK

    Gather round people let me tell you're a story
    An eight year long story of power and pride
    British Lord Vestey and Vincent Lingiarri
    Were opposite men on opposite sides

    Vestey was fat with money and muscle
    Beef was his business, broad was his door
    Vincent was lean and spoke very little
    He had no bank balance, hard dirt was his floor

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow

    Gurindji were working for nothing but rations
    Where once they had gathered the wealth of the land
    Daily the pressure got tighter and tighter
    Gurindju decided they must make a stand

    They picked up their swags and started off walking
    At Wattie Creek they sat themselves down
    Now it don't sound like much but it sure got tongues talking
    Back at the homestead and then in the town

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow

    Vestey man said I'll double your wages
    Seven quid a week you'll have in your hand
    Vincent said uhuh we're not talking about wages
    We're sitting right here till we get our land
    Vestey man roared and Vestey man thundered
    You don't stand the chance of a cinder in snow
    Vince said if we fall others are rising

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow

    Then Vincent Lingiarri boarded an aeroplane
    Landed in Sydney, big city of lights
    And daily he went round softly speaking his story
    To all kinds of men from all walks of life

    And Vincent sat down with big politicians
    This affair they told him is a matter of state
    Let us sort it out, your people are hungry
    Vincent said no thanks, we know how to wait

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow

    Then Vincent Lingiarri returned in an aeroplane
    Back to his country once more to sit down
    And he told his people let the stars keep on turning
    We have friends in the south, in the cities and towns

    Eight years went by, eight long years of waiting
    Till one day a tall stranger appeared in the land
    And he came with lawyers and he came with great ceremony
    And through Vincent's fingers poured a handful of sand

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow

    That was the story of Vincent Lingairri
    But this is the story of something much more
    How power and privilege can not move a people
    Who know where they stand and stand in the law

    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow
    From little things big things grow
    Last edited by leskey; 11-07-2009 at 06:15 PM. Reason: typo
    But nothing's lost. Or else: all is translation And every bit of us is lost in it... - James Merrill

  3. #853
    Moderator leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
    - and that formalizing creativity under some simplifying 'academic' discipline is close to impossible
    This is true, SB. Thankfully, though, creativity is innate...it can be encouraged, cultivated, upheld and enacted upon...
    But nothing's lost. Or else: all is translation And every bit of us is lost in it... - James Merrill

  4. #854
    Grandmaster Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    ........Law & True Emotional/Intellectual Maturity of…

    The Inverse Theorem of Value__Iff Capitalist System Incentive Mechanics’ Value Is Transferred From Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits, to Fiat Money System Law, Real Wealth Can Be Created for All World Citizens…rrr

    ...................................
    The Inverse Theorem of Value__Iff Capitalist System Incentive Mechanics’ Value Is Transferred From Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits, to Fiat Money System Law, Real Wealth Can Be Created for All World Citizens…
    ..............................

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ndC07C2qw&feature=related
    "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
    "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
    "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
    "The tick-tick-tick of the caesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.

  5. #855
    Grandmaster Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Hi SB, and in answer to your central question; "How does one behave perfectly morally in a world in which money is required - in which any and every dealing which involves money is (in effect) bad?"(self-perception is deceiving...), It entirely depends on which side of the law one stands on, 'The Moral'__'The Immoral'__'The Amoral'. Look at this again; "The Inverse Theorem of Value__Iff Capitalist System Incentive Mechanics’ Value Is Transferred From Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits, to Fiat Money System Law, Real Wealth Can Be Created for All World Citizens…", and please study it closely, as it is the central tenet of the earliest of thought, from the 'Torah', where 'Jehovah/God', was clearly known and thoroughly understood as the 'moral law of the land' of the earliest Jews...

    As I stated above it matters most which side of the moral law one stands on, in order to see the spirit of the world's progress, with the truest set of eyes. If one stands on the 'Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits' side of the equation, one will always be blinded to the spirit's true mechanics of evolution. One must stand on the 'Fiat Money System Law' side of the equation, and realize it's not as you've always thought, i.e., that it is immoral and amoral. The universal spirit of all's thought is using this same path to guide us toward the final moral law goals, thus the 'Fiat Money System Law' has a moral constitution, which most do not, or will not see__and herein lies the central truth of all evolutionary history of man and his many different law systems'__trials and errors...

    We must see thoroughly through this complex system, to it's central simplicity of the theorem I have recently developed, with the help of a continuing epiphany phenomena series, I and many others keep having. The entire facts are given in this new theorem: "The Inverse Theorem of Value__Iff Capitalist System Incentive Mechanics’ Value Is Transferred From Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits, to Fiat Money System Law, Real Wealth Can Be Created for All World Citizens…"

    Iff, you cross over from the 'immoral visions of law', to the 'moral visions of the amoral law', then all visions and perceptions will be clear__"The doors of perception will be opened, and its windows/lenses will be cleansed..."

    Law is not the evil... Law is the good, when made/constructed good...rrr

    Quote Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
    really interesting links; thanks.

    ~*~

    In all honesty -
    - attempting to find something worth doing and a method to earn money honestly.

    Can't find anything worth doing to a large extent because the current financial system is itself corrupt.
    If one only looks for corruptness, it's all one will find__The abyss...

    The closest I get to finding a task worth doing is in a venture which is borne from the need to mitigate the rampaging effects of money on society; running around after people with cash and no conscience with a dustpan and brush.

    Completely confounded
    - leading me to my only real question (from the last several years or so) ... ... ...

    How does one behave perfectly morally in a world in which money is required - in which any and every dealing which involves money is (in effect) bad?

    It's the sole basis behind the one~wage one~currency idea - freedom from wage~slavery
    our yesteryear.
    This is fine, but it must be seen on a more practical/pragmatic level. We've gotta' drag the world kicking and screaming from here to there__and that requires major law changes__From bad to good...

    The basis behind 'mixing it up until there is no pedigree' leading to homogenization in our superficial aspect (physical) whilst supported by maximal diversity in the genome (of the species) below -

    - mixing it up until wages are normalized into a tight band around the mean (one~wage perhaps)
    - leading to maximal diversity in 'workplace' deliverables alongside a market of the entire global population with approximately (if not exactly) the same buying power.

    Perhaps people (following a guarantee of their physical physiological needs being met) could choose to pool their own money into a venture
    - a shared venture if like-minded individuals so voluntarily (ref. SteveA) wish
    - the difference between this and the current {private corporation / share-holder model}
    being
    the share-holders as the actual voluntary workers contributing to a joint venture
    - profits measured in the success of the product and not in the amount of cash money gained.
    To tell you the truth, I don't see any difference you or SteveA are talking about above, as you are always in the eternal hangman's noose of the larger capitalist law system's monopoly of rights and values, or present non-values__This is what must truly change__The top__Chop down the hangman's tree, with new law...

    Not for $ profit
    Only for human satisfaction -
    - when the project becomes too dull for {one to all} of the participants
    - {all to one} can simply choose (ref SteveA) to go their own way
    and
    start again.

    A labour of love.

    To work is a basic human need (the carrot) and not the stick which {money, law, the private corporation and government} conspire to defraud.
    What about the absolute necessity of human defense against the anarchic mob__This is a reality whether one chooses to admit it or not, and here's where SteveA and Chomsky are absolutely wrong...? Humans are not yet civilized__and far from it...!!!

    Question?
    Why is work (in the very vast majority of cases) just not fun?

    Answer this question {compulsion,disenfranchised,an unwilling cog}
    - correct those flaws
    and
    we're there.

    A Post-default ourselves end to unthinking illusionary-self mandated Institutional repression.(do you actually realize you have a rather dark view of reality...?)
    I worked for forty years in a field I truly enjoyed. Even today, I often truly miss my job__as I chose an exciting job, with many challenges to keep the boredom away. Not all people hate their jobs. Some old people I met in my career worked past 100 years old, and were bright as the day they were young. They just loved being the most experienced and respected in their fields. I met two that were truly necessary to operations, and I presently have a physicist friend, retired, whom the company pays big bucks, just to return to the company for consultations, and this is more common than one realizes. The way to beat the work grind, is to become the best possible, in a field of your personal choosing. This is possible, if you just realize it is...

    As you may have guessed, I'm a positivist ideal realist__ever optimistic. Keep your chin up__We'll get there...
    "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
    "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
    "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
    "The tick-tick-tick of the caesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.

  6. #856
    Grandmaster Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by leskey View Post
    I suggest the model should also include:
    • attractive, sustainable houses of a modest scale with provision for overflow guest accommodation in studio style units owned by the whole community
    • a community building to incorporate gathering/meeting/party space; workshop area to facilitate hobbies and skills and their perpetuation in the community; recycling storage for superfluous possessions so that they can be signed out for service within the community, as necessary
    • community vegetable garden and orchard which would include a barter/exchange system (eg if a community member can't contribute to the gardening labour, then in exchange for produce, that member might reciprocate by making jams, breads, etc)
    • a commitment to natural health and healing
    Yes Lesley, excellent additions. I should have at least mentioned the community meeting house, as all the campgrounds I stay in all have these meeting houses, and arts and crafts sections. They perform a very good and dynamic function of socializing the campgrounds/communities. I also much liked your idea of houses 'with provision for overflow guest accommodation in studio style units owned by the whole community". All excellent contributions__Thanks...

    I have to attribute the idea originally to my wife, as she's the one who thought up the idea of 'Natural Communities', though I definitely share her ideas. It came from both of us being so sick of the plastic and concrete jungles, so many are now living in...

    As to natural health and healing, my wife and I have always been very physically active, walking, running, hiking, mountain climbing, snow and water skiing, treasure hunting, etc., on and on, as in Maine, our home state, has a large mineral shist running through about a 500 square mile area, and we rock and gem hunt this area quite a bit__Lots of mountain hiking. My daughter and son are bit more into the natural healing arts, as is my wife. I myself have always been healthy, so I'm a bit slack in that area, though I have studied with others big into the natural healing arts and practices__So I'm very familiar with what you state...

    My true reason of mentioning the 'Natural Community' idea was to basically show a model of complex thought about money and law__from as simple an idea base as I thought feasible__to include all the prerequisites of the entire planet's overly complex systems__in this one more simple model__Though I certainly would like to see such a 'Natural Community' world, or at the least, as many pockets/areas where this is still possible...rrr
    Last edited by leskey; 11-07-2009 at 05:59 PM. Reason: typo
    "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
    "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
    "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
    "The tick-tick-tick of the caesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.

  7. #857
    Grandmaster Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all Lloyd Gillespie is a name known to all
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    The Universal Inverse Theorems of Value, Information and Knowledge…

    Long have we searched for the most grounded ideas to solve the planet’s many problems. Many an education system, technologies, value systems, philosophies and ideas have been developed, cast aside and new methods evolved and tried__But what makes them all inadequate…? The old world tried to universalize knowledge, yet hadn’t enough particular knowledge to complete their job. The middle ages’ world tried to utilize both universal and particular knowledges, yet ended in the many conflicts of the many schools of thought. Today, we try the specializations of all the former schools of thought, almost ignoring the older universal schools of ideas, and the middle ages many debates, and lack of solutions, then and now__while the world wide web evolves toward a new universalization of the many schools of knowledge, almost unrecognized, by the many specialist schools of thinking. Might this all be no more than people’s thoughts just being out of time with the true realities of the whole spiritual and physical evolution…? Must not the solution be what we here at ToeQuest are attempting to do__Create a theory of everything…? And, wouldn’t that everything be recognizing the entire spectrum of uniting the older universal thinking with the middle ages’ particular and universal debates, with the new specializations__being newly united also with the universal design’s evolution of the world wide web’s almost unrecognized process…?

    Just let me show one particular instance__Physicists, scientists and many others think that a new energy source will solve most of the world’s problems over-night. Yet, how many truly realize how quickly the world’s major corporations, would turn any new energy source to their own personal ownership and profit__Thus putting the world right back where it was before this new energy source were found or invented…? Imo, it’s always money and law__But, let’s look deep into the values, information and knowledge systems everyone is drawing from, to see if we may find some clues to why people do think out of time with reality…

    I’ve heard many speak of emotional and intellectual maturity, but are such states of mind even possible…? My definition of emotional maturity would be to know the emotional intelligences of every human on Earth__Now, is that even possible…? No, of course it’s not, so imo, everyone is required to settle for far less than emotional maturity. Now take intellectual maturity, and again my definition would be to know the intellectual intelligences of every human on Earth__Now, is that even possible…? No of course it’s not, so imo, everyone is again required to settle for far less than intellectual maturity. What I’m getting at is, we must all settle for incompleteness, in whatever endeavor we try__It’s the best the human race is capable of, due to the shear numbers of humanity’s creative realities. Something new and more mature will always come along, as it should, so mother nature leads the show__when one is truly honest about our most basic human capacities. I think this all just has the capacity of making us a bit more humble__If we but realize what we do not, and can not__know…

    Now, let’s look at information and see what can be possible, and what can not be possible. In an earlier post I already mentioned the inverse square law of information in relation to understanding, but there’s an even deeper consideration to be made here. What about the inverse proportionality of knowledge from information processed by the number of essence agents involved, in the processing. I’m willing to bet most have never even considered this dynamic, as is clearly laid out in my graphic here: LINK I’ve mentioned much about it in different places before, but only recently realized a universal law could be applied, and here it is__Moral esthetic value is inversely proportional to the number of essence agents used to process the information involved. This simply means if we either do not use all our essence agents to process information, we end with ideas that are far less than the truths of the situation__or if we use too much emotion, and not enough logic, we fail to understand a proper knowledge, and vice versa, if we use too much logic, and not enough emotion, we get the same bad results. I’ve found it best to use all tools at our disposal to do the best job, whether at work, or in our personal emotional and intellectual lives__and I think you’ll find this law bares out. Of course this simple paragraph is also meant to include all the mind's essence agents__as equally as possible__where possibly applicable...

    As a further example of the inverse proportional law above, let’s next apply it to knowledge__And I’ll state it like this: True Knowledge is inversely proportional to the number of schools of ideas processed. The way I’m meaning this to be interpreted is__The more one specializes, the less one knows about the universality of knowledge__and, The more one studies the general universality of knowledge, the less one knows about the particular specialty fields of knowledge. It comes down to that same old problem between Plato and Aristotle__But which is better…? Do we sacrifice the universal for the particular, as most are doing today, or do we sacrifice the particular for the universal…? And then we have the ‘universal and particular’ world wide web…? My opinion is that neither of these is a choice to help us on our path to a possible evolution toward either emotional or intellectual maturity. I only believe in the considered school of doing both, or all at once__But I realize that’s near impossible for most__so we are left in a world with all minds out of time, due to the possibility of time available to study either or both the particular specializations or the universalities of knowledge. Imo, we should all keep this in mind when dealing with the many different spirits, not only on this forum, but in all our life’s dealings…

    Everyone differs due to the time circumstances of possibilities allotted to all the different peoples of this extremely diverse planet. I don’t know if this post helps any, but anyway…rrr
    "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
    "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
    "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
    "The tick-tick-tick of the caesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.

  8. #858
    Moderator leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of leskey has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
    The Universal Inverse Theorems of Value, Information and Knowledge…

    ...Now, let’s look at information and see what can be possible, and what can not be possible. In an earlier post I already mentioned the inverse square law of information in relation to understanding, but there’s an even deeper consideration to be made here. What about the inverse proportionality of knowledge from information processed by the number of essence agents involved, in the processing. I’m willing to bet most have never even considered this dynamic, as is clearly laid out in my graphic here: LINK I’ve mentioned much about it in different places before, but only recently realized a universal law could be applied, and here it is__Moral esthetic value is inversely proportional to the number of essence agents used to process the information involved. This simply means if we either do not use all our essence agents to process information, we end with ideas that are far less than the truths of the situation__or if we use too much emotion, and not enough logic, we fail to understand a proper knowledge, and vice versa, if we use too much logic, and not enough emotion, we get the same bad results. I’ve found it best to use all tools at our disposal to do the best job, whether at work, or in our personal emotional and intellectual lives__and I think you’ll find this law bares out. Of course this simple paragraph is also meant to include all the mind's essence agents__as equally as possible__where possibly applicable...

    After viewing your graphic link, Lloyd, may I suggest that 'Hate' could be replaced by 'Fear?'

    Emotion need not equate with hysteria. It can be calm, measured and logical: love, kindness, compassion, empathy, etc...perception unimpeded by fear...the knowledge or assurance of survival and freedom. So, then the function of correct perception is the processing of positive emotional choices leading to universally sound operating mechanisms. Engaging conscious holistic altruism as the primary motivation should have compounding benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
    As a further example of the inverse proportional law above, let’s next apply it to knowledge__And I’ll state it like this: True Knowledge is inversely proportional to the number of schools of ideas processed. The way I’m meaning this to be interpreted is__The more one specializes, the less one knows about the universality of knowledge__and, The more one studies the general universality of knowledge, the less one knows about the particular specialty fields of knowledge. It comes down to that same old problem between Plato and Aristotle__But which is better…? Do we sacrifice the universal for the particular, as most are doing today, or do we sacrifice the particular for the universal…? And then we have the ‘universal and particular’ world wide web…? My opinion is that neither of these is a choice to help us on our path to a possible evolution toward either emotional or intellectual maturity. I only believe in the considered school of doing both, or all at once__But I realize that’s near impossible for most__so we are left in a world with all minds out of time, due to the possibility of time available to study either or both the particular specializations or the universalities of knowledge. Imo, we should all keep this in mind when dealing with the many different spirits, not only on this forum, but in all our life’s dealings…
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post

    Everyone differs due to the time circumstances of possibilities allotted to all the different peoples of this extremely diverse planet. I don’t know if this post helps any, but anyway…rrr
    Communication is all about the desire to seek and receive accurate information: the truth.

    Where interconnectivity of data is lacking, individual motivation, the personal agenda, has control of the outcome. It's hard for humans to resist the urge to paper over the cracks to achieve a desired result. If pure truth in knowledge is impossible, purity of motivation is more likely achievable. I guess this is the basis of morality?
    Last edited by leskey; 11-08-2009 at 06:21 PM. Reason: typo
    But nothing's lost. Or else: all is translation And every bit of us is lost in it... - James Merrill

  9. #859
    Grandmaster SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    ~s~
    "I took the picture but it's very blurry. I said to him, 'Your party's built on hatred.' He started shouting at me, pointing his finger. The rest of his lot were all laughing and smirking. I just felt a bit sick inside to see him there to be honest. There they were with their poppies on, trying to put this respectable front on, yet they're happy to confront a 13-year-old at a war memorial to try and get their point across.
    The perfect (collective) mind is a hierarchical structure comprising 24 bifurcations:

    (/|\)24

    If even one triad is missing and is replaced by a dyad
    - then a partition is introduced into the mind of the person which seeds hatred.

    The underlying nature of all (divisive) prejudices and hatred is to be found within the mind of the human being -
    - actually within the mind of the human being

    - a structural flaw at some level in the hierarchical structure of mind -

    - the basis to the relationship between fear and hatred.

    Once again (from JJAbrams)
    'there are no others'
    Alter the mind to the understanding that there are no others and hatred dissipates; can't be told - need to be given the freedom to explore and reach one's own (which will be this) conclusion (for oneself).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinduism text referenced previously
    fear, lust and anger are the enemies of happiness
    - so don't do it! ('em)
    like duh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Seuss
    It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how.
    --- Q ---
    How do people know whether they're enjoying their lives?
    --- A ---
    Because they see other people who are less fortunate than they are.

    ~*~

    It's impossible for anybody to state that they've enjoyed their lives until there's nobody to be found who is less fortunate (for preventable reasons) than oneself.

    Society's current definition for success
    - which people have taken to heart
    requires
    success to be defined by unsuccess
    the successful by the unsuccessful
    - a partition which can only occur if at least one triad is missing and is replaced by a dyadin their local instantiation of the collective mind.

    \\\\////
    \\\\\//
    (/|\)
    X 24
    /////\\
    /////\\\


    where

    "If even one triad is missing and is replaced by a dyad
    - then a partition is introduced into the mind of the person which seeds hatred.

    The underlying nature of all (divisive) prejudices and hatred is to be found within the mind of the human being -
    - actually within the local mind of the human being."

    ~*~

    There is no valid measure for success in our current society - those who consider themselves most successful will by definition (until the infrastructure which characterizes society changes)
    - will
    be defined as those who introduced greatest fear and hence seeded hatred within the hearts and minds of others.

    ~*~

    It is interesting to examine the minds of people who (currently) believe that they're 'worth every penny' of their far greater than the average wealth -
    - if one were to step through the structures of their minds one would find profound logical inconsistencies (as above) -

    - profound logical inconsistencies which naturally give rise to locally logically consistent
    - globally illogical (dangerous) behaviours

    - exactly as has happened.

    ~*~

    Is it possible to be 'good' in this current environment.
    Yes.

    However only through gaining an understanding of the process of conformational change / rearrangement which is occurring within the human mind
    (with increasing useful information availability) -

    - or more simply -

    to realise that the mess which we're about to emerge from
    as
    unavoidable

    - unavoidable, given the nature of mechanism of evolution
    - ToE.

    A messy re-arrangement which leads us to an understanding of our own dynamic nature -
    our own evolutionary transition -

    - an evolutionary transition in mind -
    the mind as everything we know

    - as everything we know -
    since it's the voice which one mistakenly believes to be an isolated attribute of the isolated physical structure which one observes when one looks in the mirror.

    ~*~

    Quote Originally Posted by Leskey
    sono luminescence
    om:
    sound and image
    Quote Originally Posted by LG
    The proton reflects
    Quote Originally Posted by Nietzsche
    abyss


    ~*~

    We live in a society where No parent is allowed to care for their chilcren
    - where the closest people get to this ideal -
    is the completely false delusion that because they behave as good parents do in television advertisements and buy their children the best that money can buy
    - that they're somehow good -

    not realising that money is itself bad
    - is the cause of our problems
    - is the reason why Western governments believe that they can simply throw more money at the current economic crisis will force recovery.

    reference the LG helicopter drop image above.

    Increase the rate of consumption and we Increase the rate at which it runs out.

    Several sources state ~25 years left of easily accessible oil.

    And all this while parents keep on spending.
    Increasing the rate at which the raw materials which people need (at least currently) to live
    run
    out.

    Ever bringing forward the date at which their own children are going to have to pick up the pieces and somehow recover from a world ravaged by their self-appointed and of course objectively not at all loving parents.

    The closest one may approach good parenting in this current necessary mess is in educating people away from the desires which run rampant in the uneducated mind.

    The uneducated mind seeks satisfaction of their own primal (animal) physical desires
    - consumes the World's limiting resource in the process.

    ~*~

    Economics needs to partner with geology and other natural disciplines to determine that we don't overstretch ourselves.

    Everybody knows -
    - nobody does -

    ... ... and so the problem worsens.

    Academics pursue ever more esoteric minutiae
    - anything as long as they can tag their name onto it.
    Pursue their own illusionary immortality at the cost of species death.

    Increase the confusion instead of clarifying -
    - form into camps and then do battle.
    There are no others.
    And in the process we get ever closer to running out some more.

    ~*~

    Clarity of thought n=24 doesn't require anything other than common sense.

    Clarity of thought clarifies sense
    - doesn't require any artificial aid to thought -
    the educated mind can do it all
    - the educated mind being capable of (and simply) of seeing the wood for the trees.

    ~*~

    There is nothing difficult here.
    [ nothing other than killing money the law the savage within (original sin) matters ]

  10. #860
    Grandmaster SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of SB_UK has much to be proud of
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    Re: East Meets West Logic...

    Conclusion
    Basal physiological needs met in all people.
    [dreary dull yes however not negotiable]
    ~ prior ~
    to the remaining physical resource being allocated to all people
    - preferably in vistas which scale (wrt stimulation)
    [following an educated mind into ever more fun]

    Key concern
    Sustainable

    Goal

    Increased complexity of our internal architecture (CNS) through increasing the {diversity, range and quality} of neural stimuli -
    - more simply
    - increasing our quality of life.

    Parting comments


    ---> effect -> interface -> affect ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |

    { reflection, self-referential }

    ---> effect -> interneurone -> affect ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
    A

    ---> sono -> interface -> luminescence ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | B


    ---> audio card -> CPU -> graphics card ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | C


    ---> / -> | -> \ ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |


    --->A -> | -> C ->
    | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |



    ~*~

    We have the capacity to build a bottom up perfectly intuitive electronic system
    - our reward -
    our own central nervous system needing to evolve to handle the increased information.

    We get to open the doors to perception through need to handle increased abstraction of information.

    The key difference between abstraction of information and information (per se)
    - is that abstraction of information is stored hierarchically -
    in a hierarchical structure
    - whereas information is (in the course of classical teaching practices) taught linearly

    - a waterfall in steps in contrast to a stream.

    Creativity is the waterfall



    - is the dimension which the waterfall adds over and beyond the stream.



    No more complex an idea than that of an efficient space-filling architecture.

    Of a geometric progression (evolution) to complexity.

    ToE.



    Wouldn't work without the waterfall.

    The waterfall visible as the interface (intercommunicating layer) between the two wings of the butterfly.



    ~*~

    image doesn't show
    [click here]

    The handle which is rotated orthogonally to the subsequent rotation of the drill bit
    - whereby the rotation of the drill bit leads (following multiple orthogonal switches) back around to turn the handle.

    Recursion.

    c - a Universal constant which cannot be exceeded because our entire environment is moving at c -
    everything we know (our structured reality) is formed by a process of self-assembly from an original power source representing this
    - our actual (underlying collective Universal) speed of motion.

    Motion at c through an unsynchronized (which becomes synchronized) 2d Matrix of standing wavelengthPlanck.

    Evolution through the point of inflexion of the wave leading to a hierarchical spiral process of evolution which completes after ~24 levels -
    described previously as
    Quote Originally Posted by @@@
    revolution
    .

    Ring cycle Completion.
    [ nothing other than killing money the law the savage within (original sin) matters ]


 

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