East Meets West Logic...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

“Respect of soulful emotions is completely useless, without balanced arithmetic logic__Balanced arithmetic logic is completely useless, without respect of soulful emotions. The wisdom of the ages says; “Awake, it’s time to unite them…””

“After viewing your graphic link, Lloyd, may I suggest that 'Hate' could be replaced by 'Fear?'

Hi Lesley, and yes I hear what you are suggesting, but the reason I used ‘hate’ in place of ‘fear’, is the fact that our basic fundamental instinct is ‘fight or flight’. First, let me state, I only was intending the drawing to represent the general of all essence agents, but I did purposely choose ‘hate’ over ‘fear’, as I see it’s necessity of covering the aspects of all minds, female and male…

Let’s look at the basic instinct, of our ‘fight or flight’ mechanism, a bit deeper. If we limit this basic mechanism to ‘fear’, we are only dealing with one side of the ‘fight or flight’ mechanism, which would be ‘fear’. Imo, we must look at both sides of this basic instinct. Example; Fear belongs to the ‘flight’ side of the basic instinct of ‘fight or flight’, which imo, would belong more to the female’s instinct against the male, as the average woman would be foolish, in many circumstances(evil man with gun…) to stand and fight. She’d be wiser to use the ‘flight’(fear) side of her instinct, and exit the situation, if at all possible; whereas the man’s best option(due, say to family being in present danger…) is to convert his fear to hate, to (courage) and figure a way to defeat this evil man with the gun, by all means possible, to protect his family(he doesn’t have the option of flight, due to the necessity of protecting his loving family…) he must stay and fight__The no flight path available situation…

So, I do think there is a vast difference in how men and women view and use this basic ‘fight or flight’ mechanism. We could use examples of war, caveman, rural country settings with many evil perverted men running around, on and on, as when it comes to men against men, ‘fear and flight’ often does not work__So imo, men have a powerful natural instinct, where they are through life, often confronted with other men, where any ‘fight or flight’ fear must or should be converted to ‘hate and courage’, to defeat certain enemy situations__even if it’s just the bar-room bully. Many men in bars look deep into the eyes of all men present, to see if that dangerous instinct is present, to prevent being sucker-punched__or worse. Men to men is quite often a very dangerous world, whereas women to women, and women to men, is more often less so__even though I have witnessed women, from after hours strip bars, stabbing one another__This is a rare situation. And I thoroughly realize the massive problems involved in spousal abuse__which is horrendous…

All in all, I think I’ll maintain my basic ‘fear to hate to courage’ instinct circuit, over the ‘flight side of fear’__It serves me better in all the dangerous places I go__Many men to men situations can not be trusted(just a fact of life men must face…), and you know what many men think of men who take flight in ‘fear’ of dangerous men. It’s that final safety-valve in many men’s minds__which is still required in the worst of circumstances__Cops, prison guards and soldiers, etc., need it every day__So it’s often ‘hate over fear, converted to courage’, in a man’s world…

Emotion need not equate with hysteria. It can be calm, measured and logical: love, kindness, compassion, empathy, etc...perception unimpeded by fear...the knowledge or assurance of survival and freedom. So, then the function of correct perception is the processing of positive emotional choices leading to universally sound operating mechanisms. Engaging conscious holistic altruism as the primary motivation should have compounding benefits.”

This is in total agreement with my ideas also, and the representations in my graphic__Though we do still have to deal with the real world realities of this not being the case, in certain circumstances__Most of the world’s corporate realities__and also the giant battle between those who wish to interpret religious values into the worst case past, as verses a better/best case future…

“One should always remember this fact: The violent criminals and violent warriors, only exist in the ‘Belly of State Created Evil__State Created Inanity…’”

“The foundation of state created evil is not ‘fear’__It is always the insanity of inanity...”

“Clarity of thought n=24 doesn't require anything other than common sense.

Clarity of thought clarifies sense
- doesn't require any artificial aid to thought -
the educated mind can do it all
- the educated mind being capable of (and simply) of seeing the wood for the trees.

~*~

There is nothing difficult here.”

There is nothing difficult here, except the fact, most can not, or do not achieve that all important clarity of thought__simple balanced perception__Their minds are too clouded by self-beliefs and the worship of other’s self-beliefs. I see the problem existing in empiricism, coherentism, minimalism, anarchism, subjectivism, inter-subjectivism, existentialism, nihilism, nominalism, excess rationalism, excess logicalism, excess emotionalism, excess spiritualism, excess anything-ism__Where’s the balances…? Imo, far too much of the world listens to one of the extremisms, far too much, instead of realizing all these extremisms are simply mathematically solvable, by our simple first order arithmetics or geometries. Of all the ‘isms’ listed above, they all are nothing but tautologous ideas, grounded in nothing but their own circular thoughts of un-reasoning punditry__Scientific measurement is numbers__Simple numbers__Always…

Imo, unless more people can start applying first grade arithmetic to both logic and emotion__the simplest process nameable__we shall stay lost in the nonsense of unnecessary complexity. All we need do is simplify all the complexities of both logic and emotions with the simplest of first grade arithmetics__But will we…? People seem to be lost to the fact that emotions can be converted to esthetics(the most admirable of the best order…), without losing any of their true value__and in this way fed into the simplest computer__first order arithmetic human mind__and easily resolve all world problems. It’s too simple to almost, even state…

This is just simple first grade arithmetic: The Inverse Theorem of Value__Iff Capitalist System Incentive Mechanics’ Value Is Transferred From Commodities, Goods, Services, Prices, Wages and Profits, to Fiat Money System Law, Real Wealth Can Be Created for All World Citizens…
It applies to all values__From the most valuable soul, spirit and emotional values, to the highest of logical, scientific and intellectual values__Always…rrr

[SB_UK]

• attractive, sustainable houses of a modest scale with provision for overflow guest accommodation in studio style units owned by the whole community
• a community building to incorporate gathering/meeting/party space; workshop area to facilitate hobbies and skills and their perpetuation in the community; recycling storage for superfluous possessions so that they can be signed out for service within the community, as necessary
• community vegetable garden and orchard which would include a barter/exchange system (eg if a community member can't contribute to the gardening labour, then in exchange for produce, that member might reciprocate by making jams, breads, etc)
• a commitment to natural health and healing

Very true.

(I think I've described each of those four previously).

Perhaps though we should stop for a moment and reflect (at a species level) on the idea of

1. Limiting physical
2. Unlimiting mental
3. And the need for physical resources in realising mental stimulation.

And then optimise the nature of our physical requirements in 1. and 3.
such that they're met with minimum cost to people (effort) and the environment.

Point 1.

If we believe that we need a shovel - then
is the metal it's constructed from going to rust?
will it last multiple life times?
can it be repaired?
is there a simple method for testing whether it needs to be and then sharpening it?
how is it going to be constructed and distributed?
Is it necessary to put in place a procedure for recycling?

Point 3.

The same basic essential questions
for instance with respect to a computer - a mechanism for self-diagnosis of problems and a modular architecture which permits simple repairs and upgrades
- with much the same ease that we associate with inserting a floppy disc.

Any parts which which will break or not last multiple life times (whether on account of the speed of technological change or frailty of parts) -
should have a complete recycling procedure attached.

No more plastic placed into land fill for the duration ... ...

~s~

Every molecule of plastic we have made which we haven't manually changed to a different form is still in nature.

~*~

Sustainable first.
Scalable next.
on a One~species level.

The most important consideration being for people in general to reflect (for themselves) upon the idea of the abstraction layer.

Specifically limited to (in the first instance)
- the Mental and Physical abstraction layers.

Without one there is no other.
Without the other there is no fun.

Sustainable first Scalable next.

No option other than just gettin' the dreary stuff (physiological needs met in all people) over and done with so that we're free to party like it's 1999.

Do we have a Prince in the house?

- a commitment to natural health and healing

[SB_UK]

There is nothing difficult here, except the fact, most can not, or do not achieve that all important clarity of thought__simple balanced perception__Their minds are too clouded by self-beliefs and the worship of other’s self-beliefs. I see the problem existing in empiricism, coherentism, minimalism, anarchism, subjectivism, inter-subjectivism, existentialism, nihilism, nominalism, excess rationalism, excess logicalism, excess emotionalism, excess spiritualism, excess anything-ism__Where’s the balances…? Imo, far too much of the world listens to one of the extremisms, far too much, instead of realizing all these extremisms are simply mathematically solvable, by our simple first order arithmetics or geometries. Of all the ‘isms’ listed above, they all are nothing but tautologous ideas, grounded in nothing but their own circular thoughts of un-reasoning punditry__Scientific measurement is numbers__Simple numbers__Always…

Imo, unless more people can start applying first grade arithmetic to both logic and emotion__the simplest process nameable__we shall stay lost in the nonsense of unnecessary complexity. All we need do is simplify all the complexities of both logic and emotions with the simplest of first grade arithmetics__But will we…?

People seem to be lost to the fact that emotions can be converted to esthetics(the most admirable of the best order…), without losing any of their true value__and in this way fed into the simplest computer__first order arithmetic human mind__and easily resolve all world problems. It’s too simple to almost, even state…

Complete agreement

Can you (though) point me to a very simple definition of the difference between the terms aesthetics and esthetics ?

I think you've explained the two terms once previously mentioning that they were created by Peirce.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Do we have a Prince in the house?

Few realize it was Prince who wrote many of the greatest songs for many our greatest artists, for years...

"To see the whole, is to see the whole of the parts__Is it possible...?__Do we need to...?"rrr

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Complete agreement

Can you (though) point me to a very simple definition of the difference between the terms aesthetics and esthetics ?

I think you've explained the two terms once previously mentioning that they were created by Peirce.[They weren't created by Peirce, I believe it was the scholastics who made these first distinctions, but may have been much earlier by the Arabic speaking nations, or even the early Greeks__But I think it one of the most important distinctions to realize, in sorting the importances of emotions' and logics' proper placements and uses__as between 'the logica utens' and 'the logica docens', or simply innate open logic, and academic box logic... ]

Yes SB, here's a link to the Commons' Dictionary in Helsinki Finland;
http://www.helsinki.fi/science/comme...esthetics.html
and: http://www.helsinki.fi/science/commens/dictionary.html

These offer some definition, but Peirce's complete writings offer the best distinctions between aesthetics and esthetics, but what I stated as the clearest distinction, is that aesthetics refers more to what we generally think about purely mental stimulation of beauty and order; Whereas, esthetics refers more to what we generally think about the mental side of beauty that stimulates us to physical action__but can even be a shocking piece of art, as we walk around a house or museum and are shocked to outburts about it's affect/effect on us. It's really a fine line, but I like to see it simply as either the distinction between simple mental(affect) or more complex physical(affect/effect) stimulation...

Of course also, the aesthetic is more to do with emotions(harder/near impossible to measure...), and the esthetic is more to do with the sciences(measurable stimulation...)

A Peirce quote: "For Normative Science in general being the science of the laws of conformity of things to ends, esthetics considers those things whose ends are to embody qualities of feeling"


Hope that helps...rrr

[SB_UK]

"To see the whole, is to see the whole of the parts__Is it possible...?__Do we need to...?"rrr

All that's needed is for the individual to see enough to realize the ubiquity of ToE.

ToE is a Theory of Everything (which matters) based upon a precursor state.

Most importantly though -
there is only a requirement to see enough to know that ToE scales -
- and in so doing one will find that one's own mind disentangles.

We're given insight into what we can and cannot do (cannot do because of the unpredictable consequences which might ensue)

- and are then freed
to do
with impunity.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

And to my mind, what allows the mind to scale properly is what I stated above about realizing the distinctions between aesthetics and esthetics, as relates between 'the logica utens' and 'the logica docens'__Both of these terms are from the Arabic speaking nations, Ibn Sina and his predecessors... 'The logica utens'(feelings) is the universal 'essence agency' affording the unifications necessary for proper scaling with 'the logica docens'(science), imo...rrr

All that's needed is for the individual to see enough to realize the ubiquity of ToE.

ToE is a Theory of Everything (which matters) based upon a precursor state.

Most importantly though -
there is only a requirement to see enough to know that ToE scales -
- and in so doing one will find that one's own mind disentangles.

We're given insight into what we can and cannot do (cannot do because of the unpredictable consequences which might ensue)

- and are then freed
to do
with impunity.

[SB_UK]

...is that aesthetics refers more to what we generally think about purely mental stimulation of beauty and order; Whereas, esthetics refers more to what we generally think about the mental side of beauty that stimulates us to physical action

Thanks


Aesthetics
appears to be the mental equivalent of our construction of a receptor to some signal
such that
Esthetics
the signal (ligand) can activate the receptor and transduce a response.

Esthetics appears to be a measure of the individual's capacity to appreciate quality (complexity).
Until the individual can appreciate quality -
presumably they're told but are unable to sense the presence of quality in some stimulus.

The nature of esthetics then as representing the development of recognition machinery within the CNS which is capable of achieving coherence in an informational stream.

Our goal 'd presumably be to encourage diversity in these streams -
to help us as a species comprising multiple different species of internal cerebellar circuitry tuned to different affector signals

- our goal to (in effect) encourage diversity.

Switching context -
(which we're now able to see as an acceptable manoeuvre)

- we're given insight into the self-defeating nature of physical level prejudices (racism, sexism)
self-defeating because they reflect an imbalance in the mind of the individual
- an imbalance which dictates that the individual bearing such imbalances will never be happy.

Any mode of thought which leads to the individual, he himself believing that he is better than some anyother is ultimately self-defeating.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Excellent, I'm in complete agreement with this post...rrr

"The Queen of The World__Diversity of views__But not needless arguments of..."

My wife and I years ago stated it as; Mr. Science; Mr. Fun; & Madame' Society__The triad of diversities...

(gotta go today_battery's running out. Campground wi-fi is down__can't plug in at beach wi-fi. Beautiful warm, sunny day here_later...)

Thanks


Aesthetics
appears to be the mental equivalent of our construction of a receptor to some signal
such that
Esthetics
the signal (ligand) can activate the receptor and transduce a response.

Esthetics appears to be a measure of the individual's capacity to appreciate quality (complexity).
Until the individual can appreciate quality -
presumably they're told but are unable to sense the presence of quality in some stimulus.

The nature of esthetics then as representing the development of recognition machinery within the CNS which are capable of achieving coherence in an informational stream.

Our goal 'd presumably be to encourage diversity in these streams -
to help us as a species comprising multiple different species of internal cerebellar circuitry tuned to different affector signals

- our goal to (in effect) encourage diversity.

Switching context -
(which we're now able to see is an acceptable manoeuvre)

- we're given insight into the self-defeating nature of physical level prejudices (racism, sexism)
self-defeating because they reflect an imbalance in the mind of the individual
- an imbalance which dictates that the individual bearing such imbalances will never be happy.

Any mode of thought which suggests that the individual is better than another is ultimately self-defeating.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

SB, here's my best link to the source of Peirce's ideas about esthetics(Peirce's college freshman year...). It's Germany's great playwrite, poet, philosopher and historian, J.C.F. Von Schiller: LINK Also the other German Schiller was quite important to Peirce's insights, as he wrote "The Riddle of the Sphinx"__This was F.C.S. Schiller, and was Germany's pragmatist, but not as accurate a thought processes as C.S.Peirce, though he does offer a glimpse into the Universal Geometry, between the particular finite, and the universal infinite geometry of the continuum__What 'we' are looking for. And here's Peirce's ideas about "The Logic of Vagueness", by Mihai Nadin which is the Logic of Genericity, math and geometry, as relates to breadth and depth fuzziness, that relates to all the above...

I've got this all in my mind, but it's not exactly clear enough to fully relate yet. I'm working on the 'exactness of inexactitude', that Peirce long ago mentioned, that's been most ignored by modernity__It's the 'yes/no' non-contradiction factor of mind and extensionalities, which closely, or possibly interprets, the uncertainty principle of choice/free-will and creativity__To the semi-exclusion of most of Aristotle's 'Excluded Middle'__In other words, "The Middle Way"__"The Included Middle". It is about how our particular finite actions, are truly grounded by the aesthetics and esthetics of creativity, in the 'infinite universal goals' of our universal 'geometric' imagination. I'm looking at this process as dualistic, creating a triad of holism, where the left brain is our finite logic math processor, and our right brain is our infinite imagination/creativity/emotion processor. Left is represented by 1. Right by 'oo' infinity. And the holistic by "The Doctrine of Continuity" as represented by Peirce's 'Genericity or Vagueness', i.e., a form of fuzzy logic, barely visible at the infinitesimal(near (0)zero infinitesimals...) continuum level of brain/mind__where it transitions lower concepts to higher order concepts(the chaos butterfly fits here)...

This is all quite new to me, so I'm treading deep theoretical grounds, so please add in where you see fit. Imo, this is that long sought science of mind, of how the mechanics of creativity is formed, functions and scales. Imo, it's a major step in all the philosophies and sciences, iff we can extend this area of understanding, as it's the key between particular and universal understandings, breadths and depths, and I feel that all important link between particular maths and universal maths, through the 'Absolute Necessity' of the 'Existing Universal Geometry/ies...'rrr

That's it for now__Still thinking...