[Guille]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao

The desire to know more is what keep me going. But some are content to go on living with being ignorant of anything.

Most people. But we must admit that it is too much a sacrifice for most people to achieve wisdom and knowledge (combined they form understanding), for achieving them impplies loosing the meaning of existence.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by GUILLE

for achieving them impplies loosing the meaning of existence.

The meaning of existence is to understand its meaning and purpose for existence whether through science or religion or politics or any other discipline that one is good at.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao

The meaning of existence is to understand its meaning and purpose for existence whether through science or religion or politics or any other discipline that one is good at.

But that is assuming that we exist in orer to dedicate to the external, to the enviroment. I believe that is only the biological form. That is what our body's meaning is, but our mind's meaning is the opposite; to dedicate to the internal, within itself. Science is looking through a window at nature, and the window doesn't allow us to look directly to the image, we must look through the glass, that is the limitation of science, and we actually see ourselves reflected in the window. Philosophy, in the contrary, is a mirror, for we look at the world, we interpret it, in order to understand ourselves, look at ourselves reflected on the mirror. Art is like a wall, on which we can write, paint, or make sounds, or any other art, but the only aim of the wall to stand and not fall is for us to see what we express, and expression comes from within. So, we can say that culture is looking inwards and society is looking outwards; culture shows our hopes and fears and society shows our abilities and thoughts; culture expresses society and society represents culture.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by GUILLE

culture expresses society and society represents culture.

Culture is the individual and society is the system that a particular individual belong to. However, in American society, there are different cultures of varied ethnicities (Chinese, German, French, Italian, Russian, English, etc.). All these contributed to the advancement of the society at large.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao

Culture is the individual and society is the system that a particular individual belong to. However, in American society, there are different cultures of varied ethnicities (Chinese, German, French, Italian, Russian, English, etc.). All these contributed to the advancement of the society at large.

But what was positive for the US itself has taken it to believe it would work world wide, to belief that globalization of the world was realization of the ideal, whiles it was actually the opposite. In a spanish forum about postmodern philosophy, I've been discussing preciselly the question culture-society. I came to an interesting conclusion:

The point where culture and society meet, where the form and the format converged, where manifestation and structure become each other, is in the strategy. Culture as proposition (a proposition as proposal, a 'state of things' representation and/or expression, gaining objectivity and subjectivty, saying 'here I am' and 'this I am') and society as system (a system as a predisposition, disposition, and position at the same time, as the space for will and decision, ideal and real, permutation and limitation, saying 'that could be' and 'this will be') unite in the method (a method as strategy, process, transformation, as interrelation and autorelation, signrelation and astrorelation, the application and the implication). It is a very theoretical skeem, but it is an important idea if we want to escape from 20th century philosophy, and that is what any 21st century philosopher like me will try.

[AntonioLao]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society, I am really looking for an idealized scientific culture or a scientific society where each individual possesses working knowledge of physics and mathematics together with a common purpose for searching the TOE.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society, I am really looking for an idealized scientific culture or a scientific society where each individual possesses working knowledge of physics and mathematics together with a common purpose for searching the TOE.

Although I like wikipedia, I must tell you that encyclopedias (like dictionaries) are stupid. The definitions on them are just usefull for a basic idea of the meaning, but not for the investigation of anything, neither in science nor in philosophy.

If you want a scientific culture you need a scientific society. And as I stated that these converge in the strategy, you must look at that. How can you make a society become scientific? To start wtih, you must centre the mind on science. Science is not only scientific knowledge (although science actually means knowledge), but also scientific belief. You should make sure that people belief in science, and not in other areas of culture such as religion, philosophy or art. That is preciselly what the Vienna circle intended, but they failed. Why? Because they didn't realize a few laws of culture. First, culture needs the cartesian plane where the negative X is art, the positive X is science, the negative Y is religion, and the positive Y is philosophy. Yo cannot keep it all in one of the four lines. Second, it is exaclty the science positivism that takes to disbelief in science (not anti-science though). Just as the countries where there was heavy conservatives, fascists, like Germany, there most people are of the left in politics. Well in Europe, because positivism of science happened, the society doesn't belief in it. Whereas in US, the science-positivism didn't really have a big movement. Baudrillard in America says that in the american society there is belief in facticity, but not in facts. That is, if a doctor tells you your kid has a virus, you belief and obey, because he is doctor from some university, has worked in some place, etz etz. Whiles in Europe, people classically wanted an explanation, if a doctor came home and said what the kid was ill, and what he needed, an explanation of what the virus was and did was ussually expected. Now, with globalization, there is no belief in facts not even in Europe, and there is only belief in facticity. The problem with that is not only that it creates an ignorant society, but even worst, that it creates an ignorant society that doesn't wish to (or wonder about) stop being ignorant.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by GUILLE

How can you make a society become scientific?

Need for mental survival of sanity in contrast to physical survival of the stomach empty of food. Food for thought.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao

Need for mental survival of sanity in contrast to physical survival of the stomach empty of food. Food for thought.

This is not achievable. Too utopic and idealistic. most people will never try to find out about culture, and reduce themselves to society.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by GUILLE

This is not achievable.

Not if we turn back the clock to the age of the dinosaurs in going backward in time and maybe also in space.