[dipayankar]

Prof, I was just wondering, what if suddenly one day, we were to achieve absolute rest? Would the world that we know around us disintegrate??

Originally Posted by Profpat For there to be absolute rest it would have to be at absolute zero. While in the lab they came close to absolute zero, in space you always have heat in the form of CBR and therefore no rest for the wicked.

[Profpat]

Well Dipayankar lets hope that doesn't happen. I really don't know, maybe, I guess when they achieved almost absolute zero, and therefore almost absolute rest, the particle didn't disappear. As I recall they did it to a photon. It was really pissed off though, and very, very cold.

[Drifter]

The Nature of The Absolute

Let us examine the properties of the void in which the Creator and His universe are located. There are two things that can be said about the void, or the Absolute: It is pure consciousness and at the same time it contains all there is in potential, that is, nonmanifest or intangible form. It is infinite creative energy or a potential or resting nonvibratory state. In order for matter to appear, and later for forms to appear, a vibratory motion as to be introduced into the Absolute.

Vibration means simply the movement of anything between two points of rest or poles, as in a pendulum when it stops and reverses its direction. In other words, whatever vibrates fluctuates between its extreme poles. The movement of a pendulum can be represented by a sine wave. The crests of the sine waves are the points at which the pendulum stops [ point of rest] before swinging back.

As the frequency of a wave increases, its amplitude ( vertical distance between rest) becomes smaller. In other words, the points of rest come closer together. Imagine now a wave of such intense frequency that the points of rest come so closely together they overlap, turning the sine wave into a straight line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~________ The Absolute

In the absolute, opposites merge and are reconciled. At infinite speed it takes no time to get anywhere; one is everywhere at once, omnipotent, in a state of total rest. The paradox is solved.

l
l vibration
l
l
l
l~~~~
l~~~~~~ manifest creation
l~~~~~~~~~~
l______________________________________________> The Absolute

~ Professor Itzhak Bentov "A Brief Tour Of Higher Consciousness"

[dipayankar]

When all motion stops, I guess the bond between subatomic particles should disapper because somewhere it would have linkage to thermal bonds as well...

Originally Posted by Profpat Well Dipayankar lets hope that doesn't happen. I really don't know, maybe, I guess when they achieved almost absolute zero, and therefore almost absolute rest, the particle didn't disappear. As I recall they did it to a photon. It was really pissed off though, and very, very cold.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by analog Hey Dave, I agree that, no matter how massive, it would never achieve the one degree of freedom veiwed as absolute linear velocity, I was just pointing out how weird it is to view the sun as having structured matter more near absolute zero at its center, more so than the rest of the structured matter within the solar system. I've stated this in a thread before, and I figured it sounded retarded to others. It would seem that an increased fundamental medium density lowers the needed linear velocity required, which would allow for absolute zero (one degree of freedom) to be obtained, but it doesn't help due to the complications of further accelerating a formation once it gets that massive. ...

All of this strikes me as difficult to comprehend. Even if one degree of freedom inside a star is achievable, what about the movement of the star in its orbit around a galaxy? Just like a cup of coffee in your car while you drive the limit on an interstate, it may look quiet and motionless relative to you, the driver, but it's really screaming down the highway at 65 or 75 MPH along with you and the rest of the car. (Plus, the interstate roadbed and the Earth are careening around the Sun at over 65,000 MPH.) And what about the universe itself? How do we know that it isn't "screaming down the highway", too? Where is all of this kinetic energy hiding? How can you shield any part of the interior of a star from participating in this energy? A black hole?

[analog]

Originally Posted by JAK All of this strikes me as difficult to comprehend. Even if one degree of freedom inside a star is achievable, what about the movement of the star in its orbit around a galaxy? Just like a cup of coffee in your car while you drive the limit on an interstate, it may look quiet and motionless relative to you, the driver, but it's really screaming down the highway at 65 or 75 MPH along with you and the rest of the car. (Plus, the interstate roadbed and the Earth are careening around the Sun at over 65,000 MPH.) And what about the universe itself? How do we know that it isn't "screaming down the highway", too? Where is all of this kinetic energy hiding? How can you shield any part of the interior of a star from participating in this energy? A black hole?

Hey Jak,

I left you a response on the other thread that I was moving our conversation to here, so we wouldn't be stealing Antonio's thread, because it will take a bit of conversation to explain some of this.

One degree of freedom isn't acheivable within the core of a star, and you are correct to point out the different velocities of the sun, earth, and galaxy.

One degree of freedom represents the max linear velocity of a particle within my framework, or the material aether at its most condensed state within Dave's framework. That's why it isn't acheivable within the core of a star, because a star isn't traveling nearly that fast. All that can happen within the core of a massive body is further condensing of Dave's aether, which translates to increased angular momentum (not linear velocity), or increased particle frequency within my model (which doesn't increase linear velocity).

I'll let Dave explain further about any questions you might have relating to his model, because I would just mess it up; but the model I use to probe our world is similar to Dave's and has helped me greatly in understanding his model, and I can answer as much as possible with it if you like. It may not be as complete as Dave's, but it is a framework which contains the potential for most, if not all phenomenon. I've used it to understand temperature, relativity, my version of the four forces, etc. It's not complete or perfect, but it does provide for an interesting flow chart. Here's a link to it, but I can save you a lot of time and sum it all up for you, if this interests you.

To answer your other question; the energy of Dave's system and mine isn't hidden at all, it's an effect of the concept of absolute motion of his aether and my particles. Dave created the concept of absolute motion about thirty years ago. I, too, saw it's importance before I knew about Dave's theories, but he's been helping me to further understand it lately. That's the secret to all of the kinetic energy you were referring to above.

Let me know if this helps, or if you would like any further explanation about my views.


Regards,

Tim

Originally Posted by JAK All of this strikes me as difficult to comprehend. Even if one degree of freedom inside a star is achievable, what about the movement of the star in its orbit around a galaxy? Just like a cup of coffee in your car while you drive the limit on an interstate, it may look quiet and motionless relative to you, the driver, but it's really screaming down the highway at 65 or 75 MPH along with you and the rest of the car. (Plus, the interstate roadbed and the Earth are careening around the Sun at over 65,000 MPH.) And what about the universe itself? How do we know that it isn't "screaming down the highway", too? Where is all of this kinetic energy hiding? How can you shield any part of the interior of a star from participating in this energy? A black hole?

Hey JAK,

It's not that difficult. I'll explain further, but it might take some conversation and out of respect for Antonio I'll move our conversation to one of my threads. Here's a link to my response...Absolute Rest

regards,

Tim

[analog]

Hey Dave,

I see you're rearranging the furniture. You had me confused there for a minute. I didn't know what was going on; thought I had hit a wrong button. LOL

[dleviwing]

Hi Tim;
I’ve moved JAK’s and your post from Antonio’s for you.

Now to add to your reply to JAK, any uniform motion through space will only assist the condensing of FS at the core of a sun or BH. If an object is moving at a velocity of “absolute motion” it cannot move in any other direction even though it can occupy the 3 dimensions in space or in an absolute void.

Even in my theory Tim, a particle condenses to wave symmetry (high frequency short wavelength) until it no longer has harmonics associated within it. This requires angular momentum to sustain it as a particle. I believe neutrinos are good examples of such particles. If you would like to get an idea of the math, just assume “Absolute Motion” is twice the speed of light and make a graph of motion changing from 2c linear to 2c angular or vibrational motion. Consider the area swept out by the change to represent energy; you’ll see why E=mc2 works. Energy is a measure of the change of the distrubution of absolute motion.

[analog]

Hello again Dave,

Thanks for your assistance with the thread, and thanks for the great reply. I hope that you will treat this thread as though it's your own, even as it pertains to your framework, and jump in with any comments, or topics, that will help us in our understanding.

You don't have to worry about stealing this thread; your views have done nothing but assist in my understanding, and they are encouraged and welcomed here.

Your friend,

Tim

[dleviwing]

Tim;
If what I’ve done has improved your understanding then I’ve accomplish the goal and purpose of joining ToeQuest. My goal was to make QM and Relativity simple to comprehend rather than leaving it as complex jargon of the physicist and mathematicians. The thrill comes when you can read a non-fiction science book and say with confidence that it IS “science fiction”. I’ve adopted Penn & Teller’s phrase BS for such books.

The quantum level is not chaos but is a beautiful set of wave symmetry and harmonics confined in localize domains of angular momentum of the only physical substance of our universe. The ultimate comes with the particle of pure wave symmetry that converts angular momentum of the particle to angular momentum of the wave interference symmetry.