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Thread: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

  1. #11
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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    I do know the feeling about none of the keys quite fitting, Antonio ... at least there appears no way to close it all off as a finite set of properties (and maybe that's not such a bad thing when you think about it ... consider this - nature may be doing us a favor in that respect ). It appears founded in a paradox - two sides of a coin that appear to be unconnected in the middle - or like looking at two separate islands and nothing connecting between them - and thinking how is it possible that I can basically "see" both of them, yet nothing continuous and solid existed between them?

    Then a few of the comments here regarding it all being connected together hit me - if you're observing both and nothing else exists between them, then it could only be you who're connecting them - the "channel" between them.

    Why would Einstein have ever thought spacetime was bent? If the entirety of spacetime possessed this feature there should be no outside reference by which the concept of a flat/straight space should exist. In a similar manner many good mathematicians have had a similar instinctive view of their concepts. I recognize you have a similar sense (sorry if I haven't followed the Haddamard matrices. They actually do seem like a subject that would normally be right up my alley, but I've been looking more toward perception and space as a linear timeline. Emotions appear to contain a value function and properties are interpreted in a reordered manner in time via. the mind/intelligence and this is likely a source of perception of change/time and this form of reordering of conserved volumes appears to have much of the properties of a superfluid and incompressible space, though it would appear that new properties/dimensions/elements need to be added/inserted into this in order that time exists - maybe time is capable of completely irrational change, but from any fixed reference for change, only coherent change relative to that would appear to be anything we could communicate about as we rely upon structure for communication (not simply in terms of a conventional language but in (most?) all ways)).

    To me, the "bottom rung" appears to be desires - that's what I assume the source of time/change is, there's nothing else that would appear capable of any form of motive or direction. What can I say? That sounds extremely "unscientific" in a conventional sense, but hey, it's the only reference I've got that appears to match and I'd assume the fundamental desire is simply growth - if time can't repeat without ending (which would be a closed loop at some point and mean information loss was possible - 2 events leading to a single state - not a 1 to 1 mapping. It's also a logical paradox in that a perception of time could be a finite and static object - there would be nothing in it capable of change, so I can only assume time is finite)

    Consider this as a possible source of inertia - if we had a "random" (at least a complexity of pseudo randomness greater than our ability to model/predict) motion in many dimensions away from an origin and this described "present" moments as discrete events filling up a space - if it was predetermined that none of these would repeat, then a statistical bias away from the origin could potentially be detected, similar to a chaotic crystalline structure growing outward, instead of a Brownian motion or gas diffusing into space. In this case, we have a bias in direction, as well as potential (likely miniscule in terms of detectability) curvature of this spherical expansion - but the significance over an infinite time would depend upon the relative rate of growth of dimensions versus the volume encapsulated, but the bias in events away from the origin as non-repetitive events could be a source of inertia (notice that this would be something that could also provide the equivalent of instant updating of a wave function).

    Notice that the existence of an equal and opposite force inherently separates objects and makes the event non-repetitive (you can't get stuck forever pushing against something but instead there's a repulsion - over time though as contexts changed, a re-interaction could occur without it being a repetition in time, hence we could potentially see things like orbitals).

    It's an interesting idea at least - it might be that the laws of nature are all founded upon avoiding repetitions in time? (Consider evolution and inherent diversity in life - spacial expansion, various phase changes in material states over time in the universe etc. That may be a singular bias that derives the rest? An interesting possibility. This would also fall in line with my comments regarding mental contexts as well - notice that if a context is not altered, then if a change had to occur, this would then have to be some "external" form of change of no internal change occurred. The greater the diversity of mental contexts for an event, the less any external influence would be required to "nudge" things out of a figurative steady orbital or collision course with the past ...)

    As usual, I can ramble ... but I admit that for me, that last section is an interesting one to contemplate. The principle could simply be change/non-repetition - either one does it them self, or something else does it (i.e. subconscious/instinctual/natural etc. force alters/impedes things?) I can see a lot of ways how that could work ... cool! (Hmmm ... maybe we need to look at some infinite patterns/manners of growth? )

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by labelwench View Post
    Renewable resources are renewable, yet not at the rate we are depleting them.
    I normally tend to not think this to be a problem. People will adjust their habits to what's available/best at the time ... but one comment that a young man made to me this morning struck a thought - it could be simply that the habit (or monopolization of energy technologies via. legislative means?) is a problem and that, I guess similar to both your comments, the "instant gratification" (which in itself may not be a problem) leads to an ignorance of longer term possibilities for growth of alternatives, in which case there could be a stagnation ...

    Oh well, another interesting little piece to think about (It would seem ideal to still use what's convenient, but retain some focus on the direction of the future. Personally, I think most all forms of intellectual property are detrimental to technology and ironically impede developments and make engineering less valuable! I'm saying that from personal experience too. I've had multiple times where I designed some new product for someone only to find that someone else effectively claimed it already - what a waste - that's even more of intellectual theft, IMO, because you can't even use your own ideas without getting permission. There are ways to get rid of intellectual property and still have the creators of that content/design etc. compensated, and almost certainly more than previously as well as dropping the need for people to inefficiently reinvent "toasters" a thousand different ways simply to avoid violating someone elses patent and, yes, along the lines of energy, I'm rather certain it would free up energy markets as well)

    I thought it was interesting that Thomas Jefferson was an inventor and also opposed the patent system. He never took out a patent.

    http://senselist.com/2006/10/27/12-t...rson-invented/

    I don't believe that such creations should go uncompensated for, but consider what the true market of a product is - it's not a single person or company even but an entire industry. We should allow people to do whatever they want and charge whatever they want from whomever they want and not have lawyers and courts and reams of engineers wasting their time trying to monopolize things they often hardly even use. An inventor already has a de-facto monopoly on the ideas and needs to assistance enforcing this and an inventor is capable of asking for whatever they want from even an entire industry in order to provide the invention (a 3rd party could arbitrate the exchange).

    The marketing then becomes one of the invention being targeted to all areas where it could be utilized and the compensation could then be collective (of course an inventor may not want to wait very long in case someone else discovers the same thing and gives it out earlier) and production then becomes much more efficient as producers are not tied to producing solely those things they have rights to produce but instead can select the most optimal products/designs that they have the ability for.

    I've actually refrained from working on some especially good designs because I want to retain an ability to work with those ideas later. If I use them and someone patents the ideas, then in theory they even legally deny me from working on my own stuff ... yes, I guess if I went to a lot of extra labor to document things etc. then maybe I could go to court to defend my ability to work on those (assuming noone paid off a judge), but that's just a hassle and it seems almost insulting to have to get permission from other people to use my own ideas (I do agree it's at least morally reprehensible to compete against someone else in a limited market using their own work, but without any I.P. then it works better because people simply sell their ideas to the entire market and so it's impossible to "steal" an idea from someone - they release it when they're satisfied with the offers of compensation and you'd likely only need a 3rd party to arbitrate discrepancies of the claims made by the inventor/developer/designer/content provider etc. did not live up to the actual invention/product when released)

    Also, this would make it much more valuable for people to not bother trying to reinvent wheels in a thousand ways to have a uniquely patentable (though inefficient and non-optimal) version, but instead that diverse engineering departments across industries would find it better to coordinate and develop things together in a more progressive manner as their work benefits entire industry(ies) instead of a single company. You could get rid of most the legal hassles associated with patents and producers would have a much wider variety of optimal designs to select from instead.

    Oh well, that's just one of lots of ideas as to things I'd like to see happen ... well, I guess we'll see what happens. Time will tell.

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    Grandmaster labelwench's Avatar
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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    You have more faith in our species than do I, Steve. Consider the fate of the buffalo and many other species now extinct. We may possess the intelligence to conduct ourselves otherwise, yet we seem to lack the will or capacity at the level that counts. Many individuals are making life-style choices based from a planetary impact perspective, while industries work from an economic bottom line viewpoint using resources that are not appropriately evaluated as to their 'true' cost.

    How may a can of mushrooms from China sell for 68 cents, when one factors in the cost of processing and transportation? The impacts of the refining of the fuel and it's effect after combustion in both processing and transportation are nowhere factored in. Additionally, it seems rather perverse that we import cheap food from nations where there are far more hungry people than in our own countries. Maybe I'm just biased, having known lean times in my youth and not finding the experience one that I would care to repeat or wish upon another. We are such a wasteful society that it boggles my mind.

    The issue of intellectual property has ever been an interesting one to me, for more than one person may arrive at a similar understanding simultaneously, and then to whom should the benefits accrue?

    Ownership of an idea.

    Are the products of our mind truly of our own origination, with no other external influences?

    Could one devise an experiment that would convincingly prove this point?

    Would there be ANY thought without the external input of our senses co-ordinated?

    When does thought begin, and when does it end? Certainly not when one is sleeping. We just are not aware of the background activity of the mind at such time.

    With apologies to Antonio for leading your thread far from it's original path.....
    So many paths to the same destination,
    would, but I could, experience them all...

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Keeping with my slightly cynical frame of mind this morning, here is treelobsters take on our progress as a species.....

    http://www.treelobsters.com/2010/08/176-kepler.html
    So many paths to the same destination,
    would, but I could, experience them all...

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Anna and Steve, much of what said show vividly the human mind interaction with the external world. Fundamentally, this interaction might not be in a 1-to-1 correspondence in the sense that if we give something we expect to get something back and hopefully we get more than what we gave never to get less of our efforts. Nonetheless, life's experiences have shown just the opposite. The external world expect more than what we can give but it never tells what it really wants just like a passive aggressor. We have to guess all of the time. For example, the law of gravity. As a child would realize too late that it can hurt or get killed jumping over a great height but still human daredevils would do the stunts.

    Regarding the Hadamard matrices, they are just extension of the rotation matrices of classical transformations (translation, reflection, dilation, contraction, etc.) to describe double rotations at the infinitesimal domain of spacetime. Relativistically, imaginary complex domains were used by Einstein and others but I replaced them with only real components for the elements of the matrices and there are no zero elements except for the null matrix of all zero elements used to describe certain states of dynamic equilibrium such as mass zero and charge zero.
    Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: a(tr(t)=c²

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by AntonioLao View Post
    This would apply perfectly to many wine makers who are not concerned about profits but the quality of the wine. 'Instant satisfaction' would apply more to a wino than to a social drinker. For those who drink alone, they can drink themself to death and still get no satisfaction.
    Wine is an excellent example of a process that requires time to convert fermenting fruit into a consummate beverage that may be enjoyed, in moderation. Abuse of any substance is usually a symptom of lack of satisfaction with other conditions in one's life. In attempting to avoid pain, be it of physical or psychological origin, our species often substitutes another.

    A sadly circular equation with no satisfactory solution, IMO, which cannot be resolved save by the individual so involved. Others can only point the direction to a better way. The choice must be taken by the person.....

    What leads any of us to make the choices that we do?
    So many paths to the same destination,
    would, but I could, experience them all...

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    The interaction of the human mind with the external world appears to vary widely from individual to individual......although many natural forces, such as gravity, would appear to affect us similarly. Even there, a lithe and light individual will experience a different outcome from a fall than another who may be of considerably greater weight and mass.

    The bigger they come, they harder they fall?
    So many paths to the same destination,
    would, but I could, experience them all...

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by labelwench
    What leads any of us to make the choices that we do?
    making a quick buck? Taking the easy way out?
    Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: a(tr(t)=c²

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by AntonioLao View Post
    making a quick buck? Taking the easy way out?
    I would hypothesize that the universe functions on the principle of following the path of least resistance, as observed with electricity, air flow, and water, even volcanic eruption, things that we can observe at the local level.

    As for making a quick buck, that may also be considered the path of least resistance for some. The state we term 'life' requires constant maintenance, regardless that the body is primarily comprised of autonomous functions that look after the details of breathing, circulation, elimination etc.

    The conditions required for this maintenance are shared by all living things, to various degree, and are supplied by the natural resources of this planet.

    As our planet is connected to the universe, so are we connected to this planet.

    Before we contemplate the universe, perhaps we should begin our ponders closer to home, if we hope to prolong such musings?
    So many paths to the same destination,
    would, but I could, experience them all...

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    Re: spacetime inverses and 1-to-1 mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by labelwench
    Before we contemplate the universe, perhaps we should begin our ponders closer to home, if we hope to prolong such musings?
    For that we can blame it on a planet that allows clear nights for its inhabitants to gaze and to wonder the moon and the stars. If Earth was a planet with perpetual cloud cover then no Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, or Newton would have became historical figures of science. In China, there are more babies born 9 months after period of blackouts where after sunsets people stay indoors for lack of natural light. Incidentally, the perpetual cloud cover can also protect a planet from harmful radiations and consequently living things live longer and healthier as any deep sea creature would agree.
    Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: a(tr(t)=c²

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